13
   

OUTRAGE OVER WHALING ... #2 <cont>

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 10:01 pm
@msolga,
Whoops. I meant Australian territorial waters, Not Australian protected waters.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 11:04 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
To change the subject to a more serious note -- what exactly is the status of the Whaling Ships and their environmentalist stalkers under international law? If the Whaling is legal-ish as "scientific" under the Whaling convention, isn't what the activists do at least in the broad perimeter of piracy? Could Japan have military vessels escort their Whaling ships, and have the military shoot the activists down? Rainbow Warrier style, only on the high sea?


I'll have another go at answering your question, Thomas. My previous response was a rushed, all-over-the-place, effort!

Under the United Nations Convention for the Law of the Sea the Japanese whaling ships would be entitled (under Japanese law) to "innocent passage" (safe passage) on the high seas. So I guess, if the Japanese government wanted to act strictly in accordance with their own law, this could mean having military vessels accompany their whaling ships ... though I really don't know about the "legalities" (or wisdom! Wink ) of shooting down activists who interfere with their commercial whaling activities!
However (within the context of the "troubles" between the Japanese whalers & SeaShepherd, in the Southern Ocean last summer) such action would have created a serious dispute between the Japanese & Australian governments (disputed sovereignty). The area in which (most of) the whaling occurred is in what Australia considers Australian Antarctic territorial waters. There is anti-whaling legislation which applies.
So really, you could view this situation as a dispute about whaling between the Japanese & Australian governments, as much as a dispute between the Japanese whalers & SeaShepherd. (There are many - not just SeaShepherd - who would like to see the Australian government back up its anti-whaling legislation with more determination than it has demonstrated so far.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 11:06 pm
.. I hope that's a bit clearer, Thomas?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2009 01:06 am
@msolga,
In the time of the Series of Fugitive Slave Acts in the US, it was a felony to harbor and give aid to escaping slaves. The parallel is that something viewed as legal under the laws of the times(like "scientific whaling" for research on whale serving sizes) but is obviously wrong by "Natural LAw", will probably have to be adjudicated by violence at some time in the future.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2009 01:54 am
@farmerman,
Interesting, farmer!
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2009 06:05 am
@msolga,
Yes, MsOlga. You've made it perfectly clear how confusing it all is.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2009 05:39 pm
@farmerman,
Hmmm -- how will you think of this argument when America's religions right makes this argument in the context of bombing abortion clinics?
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2009 05:51 pm
@Thomas,
I'll leave that one to farmer, Thomas. You did ask him, after all! Wink
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2009 05:53 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
Yes, MsOlga. You've made it perfectly clear how confusing it all is.


But are you really sure it's clear, Thomas? I could always have another go at explaining ...! Wink
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2009 05:56 pm
@msolga,
What, and make me even more clearly confused? Nah, I'm alright.

I'm reading in your "recent posts" that you're "in rude health" today. Get well soon!
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2009 06:21 pm
@Thomas,
Welcome to the (bewildered & frustrated about whaling) club, Thomas! Wink

It doesn't help that the International Whaling Commission has put the whaling issue on hold for another 3 years, because member countries can't reach a workable agreement. The ineffectuality (is there such a word?) of the IWC is a huge problem. The loopholes (like "scientific" whaling), the ferocious lobbying on both sides, the fact that the Commission was set up to regulate whaling for the industry, in the first place .... It's hugely frustrating for conservationists & it's not at all surprising (to me, anyway) that that groups like SeaShepherd opt for direct action, in sheer frustration. So it's looking like another summer of confrontation on the high seas this summer. Sigh.

0 Replies
 
KiwiChic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2009 06:35 pm
"Japan has a long history of whaling. Due to a moratorium on commercial whaling by the International Whaling Commission, Japanese whaling is currently restricted to research hunts conducted by the Institute of Cetacean Research. Nevertheless it is a source of political dispute between pro- and anti-whaling countries and organizations, since environmental groups regard the Japanese research programme as a cover for commercial whaling"

There have been media reports of whale meat on the market in Japan from endangered species

Which at the end of the day that's what its all about, how to kill Whales for food and get away with it, all under the guise of 'Research'.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2009 06:38 pm
@KiwiChic,
Yep. Commerce vs conservation, KiwiChic.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2009 08:31 pm
@Thomas,
There are extremists in all movements. I dont know how far the uS is divided on abortion but, as far as whaling "research" you are assuming that we dont recognize that The Farley Mowatt and Steve Irwin are breaking laws of the seas. Olga and I have argued that with CJ in the past. Im of the opinion that, for, this case, a little civil disobedience is warranted to put various pressures on the whaling nations.
To extend that to the dissenters of a womans right to have an abortion is a decent point to make I suppose. However, if we just do point/counterpoint comparisons as to which disobedience is more Heinous proves nothing and accomplishes nothing.
In the case of the fugitive slave acts, remember we did fight a considerable war over the subject. Perhaps, after several generations of precedent , the entire "choice/non choice" issue will be modified to bring folks closer together without a similar fight. There are many points that the anti choice folks make (like late term abortion) that I agree with, but there are also many facets of their position that are mere attempts at control based upon religious dogma .

I have no idea how the "pro life" extremists justify murder. however, their use of murder wont have any effect achieving their desired goal, on the contrary I feel it will only provide moral support to the pro choice side.
However, in thematter of whaling, which , I think we all agree, is the act of removing an entire family of organisms from the earth by calculated industrial extermination. ALSOthis extermination is being done by a small minority of nations who try to justify their national appetites for whalemeat by calling the forced extinction "research" is ridiculous and is an affront to the civilized world.

Im a contributor to several of the "pirates of the seas " including the bikers of the anti whaling crowd, The SEA SHEPHERDS. Im proud to be a supporter . Id dearly live to man a zodiac and put my boat in between a whale and a harpoon, Im that passionate about the depraved indifference of the act of whaling.

So I cannot really answer your comment about comparisons of the killing of abortion doctors and the bombing of clinics with attempting to stop the killing of whales, other than the fact that one is the of taking lives to make a political point, while the other makes an eco-political point by attempting to save lives..
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jul, 2009 02:02 am
Amen, farmer.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Nov, 2009 12:44 am
Cause to hope? A whiff of change in the air from Japan?:

Japan's whaling fleet facing cutbacks
ANDREW DARBY, HOBART
November 14, 2009


JAPAN'S new cost-cutting government has raised hopes of an end to its ''research'' whaling by flagging plans to scrap interest-free loans that the industry relies on.

A government razor gang has targeted the Japanese Overseas Fisheries Co-operation Fund, which supports the whaling fleet's manager, according to Greenpeace.


Quote:
The conservation organisation said that if the OFCF's loans dried up, the manager, the Institute of Cetacean Research, would be in financial trouble. The sale of whale meat by the institute falls short of whaling's costs.

The Government led by Yukio Hatoyama came to power in September promising to tackle bureaucratic waste, and any move against the OFCF would come at a critical point in the long-running whaling dispute.

With the International Whaling Commission unable to produce a diplomatic breakthrough, US environmentalists say the issue is on the agenda for President Barack Obama's visit to Tokyo this weekend.

But if the whaling fleet sticks to its usual schedule, it will leave within days to hunt in the waters near the Australian Antarctic Territory, where heavy clashes with Sea Shepherd anti-whaling activists are again expected.

A Japanese parliamentary review panel targeted the 80 billion yen ($A960 million) given to the OFCF for all of its fisheries programs on Thursday at one of its first public hearings.

Greenpeace campaigner Junich Sato, who attended the hearing, said that the panel wanted to revoke 70 billion yen of the funding, but did not discuss which parts should stay. Its recommendations are to be finalised in time for the government to prepare the 2010 budget in December.

''We cannot say that this will end whaling, but the fact that they will talk about removing this money is a hopeful sign,'' Mr Sato said.

A 2008 investigation by the Asahi Shimbun newspaper found that the OFCF had propped up the Institute of Cetacean Research with yearly interest-free loans of around 3.6 billion yen since 2001, but the institute had been unable to pay them back in full.

Japan's powerful fishing industry has succeeded for decades in arguing that for the country's food security, it must keep access to high seas marine resources, including whales.

The International Fund for Animal Welfare said the meeting between President Obama and Prime Minister Hatoyama offered an unprecedented opportunity to make real progress on the whaling issue.


''They're both sons of the Pacific,'' said IFAW's whales campaign director, Patrick Ramage. ''One was raised in Hawaii, the other represents Hokkaido. Both represent change.''

The visit by President Obama and next week's APEC meeting are expected to delay the whaling fleet's usual mid-November departure for the Antarctic.

This year's hunting plan has not been disclosed yet, but it is likely to include a take of up to 935 minke whales. Humpback whales that migrate in winter along the Australian coastline are not expected to be included.

Sea Shepherd's two ships are expected to depart from Fremantle in early December.




http://www.theage.com.au/national/japans-whaling-fleet-facing-cutbacks-20091113-ietn.html
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Nov, 2009 01:05 am
I read this artical this morning. Good news
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Nov, 2009 01:08 am
It could be, dp! Let's hope! Smile

Interesting to read a little more about the internal political & economic workings of the whaling industry in Japan, too.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Nov, 2009 06:23 am
@msolga,
WOW!! great news, . WOOPEEE.
Its funny that, for all the hue and cry of the "pro whaling" faction, the economic downturn shows up to help settle the argument.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Nov, 2009 08:13 am
@msolga,
Well well


Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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