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Sat 29 Dec, 2007 01:35 pm
How sad (if not criminally abusive) that members of a supposedly-Christian religion would make a child feel unclean and unworthy if he were to undergo a medical procedure that could save his life. I doubt that Jesus would have agreed with Dennis' aunt.
Ok, I'm not at all sure I understand the message here. What exactly is the issue? Freedom of religion?
Freedom for parents to kill their children...
If its not your child, its not your choice. Sad that the boy was influenced by organized religion, but he knows the truth now that he's passed on.
Forget freedom of religion, whatever happened to our freedom of choice? Let's worry about our own lives before we start judging others.
Coolwhip wrote:Freedom for parents to kill their children...
Reading the article, the parents wanted him to have the transfusion.
The legal guardian influenced him, but it was the boy who made the decision.
My question is...Was the boy truly capable of making that decision? Apparantly the judge thought so. I don't know the boys maturity level.
If this was a 40 year old and not a 14 year old, would this be an issue?
Coolwhip wrote:Freedom for parents to kill their children...
at just what point (aside from your sarcasm "kill their own children") does the society/the determination by a court of law determine how and when the rights of the person as well as the parents can be overturned? Is society at risk? no. We have states that have determined that it is acceptable to execute "children" at the age of 14, the judge determined that this "child" was aware of the meaning of his decision. and allowed the child to decided for himself. I'm not saying that at the age of 14 and the religious nature of the family are acceptable to me personally but I see no other possibility without violation of the rights of common citizens against government authority.
A child normally doesn't have the same rights as an adult(ie. consumption of liquor etc.), yet when it comes to religious matters the court can just rule that the 14 year old is mature enough to understand the consequences of his actions. Hypocrisy.
The aunt obviously brainwashed the child and it is my opinion that if that person so desperately wanted to commit suicide he might as well wait to turn 18. (yes I know those nuts this they go to hell if they receive blood, I really don't think it matters)
My question on this is exactly the same as Chai's.
Coolwhip wrote:A child normally doesn't have the same rights as an adult(ie. consumption of liquor etc.), yet when it comes to religious matters the court can just rule that the 14 year old is mature enough to understand the consequences of his actions. Hypocrisy.
The aunt obviously brainwashed the child and it is my opinion that if that person so desperately wanted to commit suicide he might as well wait to turn 18. (yes I know those nuts this they go to hell if they receive blood, I really don't think it matters)
Under the law, which supposedly is what this nation operates, how would you alter the current laws? To who would you give such an authority to? Certainly not the "child' being only 14 nor the legal guardians (because they are religious nuts) perhaps a neighbor or perhaps the local Baptist congregation or the local parish priest? The fire department? Or finally, the bio parents who are not legally involved?
Ideally I'd just like to see the kid grow up to be able to make his own decisions. The most tragic thing I ever see is children growing up and only learning what their parent/guardians tell them. Essentially brainwashed.
It sure is a dilemma and I don't know this case personally, except for what I just read but I have a hard time imagining a 14 y/o capable of making this decision. Neither should the aunts personal conviction matter. From the scarce info I'd say that he should have received the blood.
Chai wrote:If this was a 40 year old and not a 14 year old, would this be an issue?
No it wouldn't and it isn't. Usually, that is.
coolwhip wrote:The most tragic thing I ever see is children growing up and only learning what their parent/guardians tell them. Essentially brainwashed.
So can I assume that you are capable of determining who is being brainwashed and who isn't? How about Catholics or Baptists or liberals or conservatives, racists or communists or mormons or pig farmers in oklahoma? That's a tall order.
If you only hear one side of the story you are effectively being
brainwashed. This happens every day around the world.
But I was speaking ideally, some sort of utopian ideal if you like.
Fact of the matter is that most religions rely on indoctrination of children
for recruitment, so I don't really think my answer would work in the real
world.
Coolwhip wrote:If you only hear one side of the story you are effectively being
brainwashed. This happens every day around the world.
But I was speaking ideally, some sort of utopian ideal if you like.
Fact of the matter is that most religions rely on indoctrination of children
for recruitment, so I don't really think my answer would work in the real
world.
yeah, I hear that. Unfortunately, I live in the real world.
dyslexia wrote:yeah, I hear that. Unfortunately, I live in the real world.
And you were ok with the judges decision?
A person must have awfully strong beliefs to refuse to have his life saved; otherwise, it's a form of suicide. Not that I'm against suicide. If someone wants to end their life, so be it. None of my business.
I'm assuming the judge was capable of assessing the boy's maturity level.
Coolwhip wrote:dyslexia wrote:yeah, I hear that. Unfortunately, I live in the real world.
And you were ok with the judges decision?
Yes, yes I am. I have been in courtrooms when these types of decisions are made. From what I read here the judge had to make a decision and he/she is obligated to follow the laws of the state where he is. Many cases, especially involving children, are very difficult and our legal system is not always prepared to deal with them in a just and fair way (often because there is no just and fair way to deal with them) I would suggest that were you able to come up with a better legal system/ set of laws you should advocate for them.
Quote:Ideally I'd just like to see the kid grow up to be able to make his own decisions. The most tragic thing I ever see is children growing up and only learning what their parent/guardians tell them. Essentially brainwashed.
The vast majority of kids are brainwashed tragedies then.
I work in Mount Vernon, Washington and am well acquainted with the story. It should be pointed out that the caterwauling birth parents are the very same parents who, through their methamphetamine manufacturing and addiction, lost parental rights many years ago. Dennis, when he first came into custody of his aunt, had serious medical problems from exposure to meth chemicals. Was this early exposure partially responsible for his eventual leukemia? I can't say. But the birth parents are hardly the model parents you may be wont to believe. One summer, before Dianna Mincin was given custody, and when she attempted to return the boy to his parents, she found they had moved.
The local newspaper, the Skagit Valley Herald, ran a series of articles about Dennis who had been one of their carriers of the month. Dennis was popular among his classmates, many of whom were quoted as saying they did not believe he was coerced into anything. His funeral was attended by over 400 people, the majority of whom were not Jehovah's Witnesses.
It is evident that Dennis was a person of strong and exemplary character who will be missed.
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