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Are communists now Russia's last democratic option?

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2007 05:27 pm
Set,

Though I didn't write it, the transformation I had in mind was FROM the Soviet government TO the subsequent breakup and restoration of democracy.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2007 05:30 pm
From the Online Etymology Dictionary:

Quote:
Conservative as the name of a British political faction it first appeared in an 1830 issue of the "Quarterly Review," in an unsigned article sometimes attributed to John Wilson Croker.


From the same source, the entry for Liberal notes:

Quote:
The noun meaning "member of the Liberal party of Great Britain" is from 1820. Liberalism is first attested [in] 1819.


I much prefer, however, the definitions given by Ambrose Bierce:

"Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others."

Which, happily was quoted at the source linked above.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2007 06:15 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Set,

Though I didn't write it, the transformation I had in mind was FROM the Soviet government TO the subsequent breakup and restoration of democracy.

I heartily agree with Set's point that the variability in the meaning of the terms "liberal" and "conservative" you claim is in fact chiefly that between the US and the rest of the world...

But on this count here you are right, and I understood what you meant right away, fwiw.

I was writing about that just the other day in another thread:

nimh wrote:
flaja wrote:
You are thinking of process conservatives and liberals rather than ideological conservatives/liberals. Process is determined by your willingness to accept change and the direction you want the change to be in. In America someone who wants to change from capitalism to communism would be a liberal since capitalism is what we now have. But in Russia someone who opposed the change from communism (actually socialism) to capitalism would have been a conservative.

Thats true. One of the funny/interesting/odd things about Russian politics in the times of turmoil during Gorbachev's last years was that it was the hardline communists who were dubbed "the right", and the democratic/Western-oriented reformers who were dubbed "the left".

That's long been turned around again - by 2000 it was the party of pro-market, pro-Western liberals that called itself the "Rightists". But the use of the "conservative" label for the statist, nostalgic communist types and the "liberal" label for the pro-Western reformers has persisted longer.


SerSo can correct me, of course, but that's certainly how I remember the terminology in those heady days of, say, 1988-1993, when I was following Russian politics very closely.
0 Replies
 
SerSo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 08:51 pm
Noddy24 wrote:
SerSo--

Evidently you have a front row seat for Interesting Times--"Interesting" in the Chinese sense.


I am reviving the old thread just to remind that Mr.Putin's era in Russia has eventually ended following yesterday's presidential elections. Now Russia's president will be Mr.Medvedev, a Putin's nominee. Btw, medved' (with a stress on the second syllable) is the Russian word for "bear".

Some info on the event: Q&A: Russian presidential polls

We in Russia have an old saying: "a new broom sweeps in a new fashion". No matter that Putin is going to be PM and has no intention to leave Russian politics, we have a new head of state, who under the constitution imposed by Yeltsin in1993 has almost royal powers, e.g. the president nominates and dismisses ministers of the government and dozens of other high officials as well as regional governors (which is a new development introduced by Putin himself), defines internal and foreign policy, can veto the parliament's laws and dissolve the parliament if the latter does not approve the president's nominee for PM for three consecutive times. Suffice it to say that the parliament has no right to adopt laws that involve additional spending; such laws can be initiated by the government only. I am mentioning this only for the reason that I heard many times that Medvedev would be Putin's puppet. I do not think there can be a puppet with such enormous powers.

I did not go to the polls yesterday as I saw no candidate with a vision of my country's future I could share. I have an impression that none of the four runners actually had any and none really yearned for presidency. There were too much of brand promotion for all the four and too little political campaigning. The campaign was very strange this time: no candidate's posters, no rallies, no leaflets in my letterbox. Or did I miss something? Many tend to think this is all because of measures Putin and his government had taken against the dissent. Maybe, to some extent. But in my opinion in order to be real opposition one needs to suggest consistent and coherent alternatives at almost every step the government takes, not only invent slogans a month before elections. Bare criticism, even bitter criticism is not enough. What do you suggest we must do to right the wrong?

In this context I would like to answer my own question I had earlier put to the title of the thread: "No, communists present no option, the same as other existing factions". If some group formed a sort of "shadow cabinet" and started to demand particular actions to be done I would vote for them or vote for the government in order to prevent this group from coming to power. Now the leaders of all sorts of opposition in Russia seem to feel comfortable in the niche they occupy. They can stay in "loyal opposition" or clash with riot police, all the same, they are not ready to rule the country. The only result of this situation is apathy. Let us wait and see.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 09:24 pm
Interesting to hear from you again, SerSo. Thank you for sharing.

I was just reading an item about the Russian elections - focused not on the elite politics of it, but from the perspective of day-to-day life - that I liked. But you're there: do you think it's a good portrayal?



Quote:
Moscow Dispatch: Election Day in Russia

Today, Russia votes for its next president. The suspense isn't killing Michael Idov, who's there working on an article about the country [..], and has filed this report from Moscow.


http://media.canada.com/24be34eb-ecfe-4969-88c2-5aa898db4139/precinct.jpg


Hundreds of roadside billboards along Moscow's main thoroughfares are devoted to the big day, yet none is from a specific candidate or party, and their design is unvarying: a flat reminder, against the backdrop of the federal tricolor and the two-headed eagle, that "March 2 is the Presidential Election." The same image graces every municipal-controlled surface, including the backs of Moscow Metro tickets. It doesn't endorse Dmitri Medvedev, and it doesn't have to. At this point, the flag and the eagle do it naturally. He is the only candidate with free access to the imperial imagery. Or, as the man put it when refusing to debate his opponents on TV, "I have no need to prove my superiority in a verbal battle with those who never stood at the helm of the state apparatus."

The question is not whether Medvedev wins; Moscow bookmakers, a gambling friend tells me, don't even accept bets on the election's outcome. They do an over-under on his getting 71 percent of the vote instead. The only question seemingly bothering Russia's bureaucrats today is turnout. In last December's parliamentary elections here, returns were fudged so much that official ballot counts from all districts, when mapped on a graph, hilariously spike on every round number (70, 80, 90)--a distribution pattern possible only with furious rounding-up. In that election, though, each district's shenanigans had a tangible purpose: the higher the figures, the more delegates the local chapter of United Russia got to send to the Duma. This time, the goal is simply to avoid the embarrassment of broadcasting Russia's electoral apathy to the world.

The methods have been fine-tuned, too: the focus appears to have shifted from outright ballot-stuffing to making people vote by any means necessary. In Novosibirsk, the authorities are letting loose with both the carrot (free blini for everyone!) and the stick (politician Andrei Przhezdomsky alleges that a director of a factory there is holding all employees' February salaries until they vote). The head administrator of a Moscow hospital told me that he's been entrusted with making sure "all doctors and all patients" vote today, a tableau I have trouble visualizing. In the provinces, the elections are being treated as a kind of forced holiday. In Kamchatka, folk dancers performed in front of the precinct. In Samara, people received football-style scarves for voting.

In another bid to drum up excitement, state TV is set to cover the evening's returns with a dash of American style: giant screens are set up at the Central Electoral Committee HQ to flash figures from the nation's 6,000 precincts (and a few hundred makeshift precincts abroad). In lieu of any mystery about the winner, however, the networks are left to wring out whatever suspense they can from the turnout question. This morning, Channel One cut into a bio of Soviet-era fashion designer Vyacheslav Zaitsev (he's met Pierre Cardin! Personally!) to announce that "16 percent of the electorate has voted so far." Gazprom-owned NTV is running similar turnout updates at the bottom of the screen. It looks about as exciting as seeing one half of a sports score.

So far, among my friends, their friends, and friends of their friends (most, but not all, admittedly being what Mark Penn would call "latte-drinking" types), I haven't found a single person planning to vote today. A few briefly considered voting for the Communists--the only semi-credible opposition--in a show of defiance, but in the end no one bothered to go through with it. (It's understandably hard to work up any enthusiasm for the Communist candidate, Gennady Zyuganov, as this is his fourth presidential campaign). Moscow voting figures may be especially low, I'm told, because people have to vote where they're registered--which isn't necessarily where they live; in the context of Russia's insanely sprawling capital, for thousands of voters this means a ten-mile crosstown trip to the booth, with no particular payoff in the end.

Many, surprisingly many, cope with Medvedev's preordained victory via textbook Freudian transference, by developing a sporting obsession with the American Democratic primaries. "We're watching it like a Latin American soap opera," explains Alexander Garros, the culture editor of Expert, a magazine that manages to be both a clone of The Economist and affiliated with the Kremlin. "What did Juan Alberto say to Maria Luisa today? That sort of thing." Later in the week, I will be talking to a group of Muscovites I found breathlessly rooting for Barack Obama.

At noon, there are perhaps eight voters milling about Precinct 2074, inside the bizarre, Pompidou-like headquarters of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Hours earlier, President Putin, the most comfortably walking lame duck in history, voted here, dunking his ballot into a box rendered invisible by a simultaneous explosion of a hundred flashes. It looked, appropriately enough, as though the box itself became an orb of white-hot light--aglow with the will of the people, or something--as Putin made communion with it. Now the press is gone, and uniformed militia men plainly outnumber the voters. Two gorgeous girls, their ennui Ghost World-grade, guard a spread of free fish sandwiches meant to entice the electorate. It seems a bit early in the day for smoked fish, but there isn't much choice.

--Michael Idov
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SerSo
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 01:37 am
As I am a rare visitor to a2k, I think I should reply to some previous posts or I will never do it Smile

First I simply cannot help but comment on this:

georgeob1 wrote:

[..] the transformation I had in mind was FROM the Soviet government TO the subsequent breakup and restoration of democracy.

"Russia's return to democracy" in 1990's has been quoted so many times that became a commonplace. In my memory the Soviet Union of the late 80's was rather a democratic society with real elections and free discussion of all issues, though with huge economic problems. Then, when Yeltsin ousted Gorbachev (ironically he managed to do it while defending him from the hardliners' coup: see Soviet Coup Attempt of 1991), all democratic alternatives reduced to "crush the infamy" in respect to communism, socialism and any other doctrine of social justice while the real governing principle was "might is right" (if you have money and power you can do with those losers whatever you want) and this principle extended from political and economic to everyday life. If this system was democracy then call me a fascist. Maybe this type of democracy is only good for being aggressively promoted to other countries according to the recipe tested in Iraq.

nimh wrote:

[..]
About demos having been violently dispersed throughout the 90s, though - that's true of course, one only needs to remember '93 - but wasn't it more random, incidental, back then? Sometimes they were violently dispersed, sometimes they could go on as they wished, a lot of arbitrariness involved throughout -- whereas now you're basically f*cked at any time, if you go out on the street against Putin?
[..]

Before I already wrote that the Communist Party of the Russian Federation (CPRF) always avoided any clashes, so your experience in St.Petersburg only confirms what I stated. They also happened to avoid any real existing conflicts, though they kept speaking of a "criminal regime" - a very convenient opposition to show to visiting human rights monitors. At the same time when workers could not get their salaries for several months (there was no other work in small provincial towns) and in order to attract attention to their distressful situation took to the streets and blocked roads or railways, they immediately met well paid riot police and their leaders were arrested and charged of mass disorder.

A lot of arbitrariness existed indeed. If you were nostalgic for the Soviet Union, walking with a red flag near government buildings could end in merciless beating by police or have no consequence at all if you still had any desire to try again after the first time. Remembering 1993 the troops behaved as if they had been especially instructed to be ruthless, I even know a university professor (his name is Solokha) was beaten to death by a patrol for distributing pro-parliament materials.

Now the communists make their rallies freely and go on with cursing the government. I suspect Kasparov's "Other Russia" is an exception because their rallies are frequented by Limonov's "national bolsheviks", a movement whose members used to receive prison sentences for capturing government buildings a couple of years ago.


Setanta wrote:

In a news piece on the CBC, a few of those interviewed said that they showed up at polling places and were handed ballots which had already been filled in.

I won't say it is impossible but handling filled ballots to the voters is too odious to be practiced widely. I also heard that people working in organisations controlled by municipal governments (e.g. civil officers, school teachers etc.) were expressly ordered to cast their votes "in the right way" at specified polling stations and promised that they would be checked. Also, I only heard that somebody had been told... What sounds more likely, most fraud instances can take place in election committees, whose members are the same underpaid civil officers or school teachers, who are afraid for their jobs . When independent observers rarely checked what figures went to a higher electorate body the numbers differed from the protocols, which were signed by them at the polling stations. However when photos of these protocols appeared on the Internet the official results exactly in the constituencies under question were immediately amended.

With regard to the video with supposed election fraud, to which I posted a link in my earlier message, the central election committee finally reacted after this footage had appeared on TV. They explained that it was a routine procedure of registering absentee ballots and it was absolutely senseless to affect the election results by adding such a little quantity of fake ballots.

I think there is no point to discuss if there were deliberate manipulations or insignificant irregularities until there are no procedures in place, which would exclude the very possibility of fraud. Now we definitely lack these procedures and cannot verify any figures.


nimh wrote:

[..]
One of the funny/interesting/odd things about Russian politics in the times of turmoil during Gorbachev's last years was that it was the hardline communists who were dubbed "the right", and the democratic/Western-oriented reformers who were dubbed "the left".

That's long been turned around again - by 2000 it was the party of pro-market, pro-Western liberals that called itself the "Rightists". But the use of the "conservative" label for the statist, nostalgic communist types and the "liberal" label for the pro-Western reformers has persisted longer.
[..]


Yes, you are right, under Gorbachev the advocates of pro-market reforms were referred to as "the left" while communists were labelled "the right". Under Yeltsin "the democrats" opposed "the red&brown", meaning that if you opposeĆ¢ the government you were either stalinist or fascist. Now the right prefer to call themselves "liberals" and the government speaks of opposition as of "extremists". You will remember Zhirinovsky, a nationalist, who heads "The Liberal Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR)" - sounds both odd and funny.

I think the political spectrum cannot be linear. "The left" and "the right" disagree on whether it is more important to ensure social stability by protecting the poor or encourage economic initiative providing more opportunities for improving individual social status. Quite another dichotomy is "conservative" and "reformist". I would borrow the definition: the former would prefer to tolerate existing evils, the latter seek to replace them with others. I believe "liberals" oppose to "hardliners" (not "conservatives") on the basis of preference of personal freedom over order and stability. Then you may find "radicals" and "the moderate" in almost any camp, "nationalists" and "cosmopolites". Somebody may add here other oppositions of which I did not think, build a multi-dimensional matrix and label existing politicians with multiple stickers Smile
Ramafuchs
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Aug, 2008 03:01 pm
@SerSo,
Quite another dichotomy is "conservative" and "reformist". I would borrow the definition: the former would prefer to tolerate existing evils, the latter seek to replace them with others.
But for the above statment I can vouchsafe your views without ifs and buts.
But communism is not born in Russia, China, or Cuba.
Jesus is a communist.
Like Karlmarx Jesus is a jew.
Both are still popular and not the contangerous commercial compassionate conservatives.

Communism will survive inspite of the recent setback which is only a passing pace.
I wish to die as a communist.Ramafuchs
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literarypoland
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 01:59 pm
We Poles, when the Tzars were our enemies, we blew up trains, we blew up people, such terrorists became our leaders and heroes. Russia was vanquished, not for long, however.
They don't like chaos and rebels, like Solidarity. Will even agree to be smaller but live in peace. Their territorial ambitions are small, they are afraid of overstretching.
Communism is dying around the world. Kasparov talking English when arrested - sounds like an agent provocateur of foreign powers.
And this time Russians avoided a Civil War, have gotten stronger.
They are not just waiting there to be dismantled.
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