Waterboarding

mysteryman wrote:

Do I support any form of physical torture?
No, I dont.

But I dont consider waterboarding physical torture.
Yes, there is a physical aspect to it, but it is mainly a form of mental stress.
It mkaes you think you are drowning, even though you arent actually drowning.

Let me make my position crystal clear.

I do not support torture, but I do support doing whatever it takes to save the men in my platoon (short of murder or permanent harm).
War isnt fair, unless you think that "fair" means that all of your troops come home.

I support doing whatever it takes to allow that to happen.

I disagree. When you are waterboarded, you are being suffocated. It isn't a question of 'makes you feel like.' You aren't lying there, all cool, just relaxing, your body secretly okay but your brain thinking that you are going to die. You can't breathe. If they continued the torture you would die. At some point it will kill you. It's fallacious to say that there is no physical component to it, as there most certainly is.

Are you okay with mock torture? Psychological torture?

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Do I support any form of physical torture?
No, I dont.

But I dont consider waterboarding physical torture.
Yes, there is a physical aspect to it, but it is mainly a form of mental stress.
It mkaes you think you are drowning, even though you arent actually drowning.

Let me make my position crystal clear.

I do not support torture, but I do support doing whatever it takes to save the men in my platoon (short of murder or permanent harm).
War isnt fair, unless you think that "fair" means that all of your troops come home.

I support doing whatever it takes to allow that to happen.

I disagree. When you are waterboarded, you are being suffocated. It isn't a question of 'makes you feel like.' You aren't lying there, all cool, just relaxing, your body secretly okay but your brain thinking that you are going to die. You can't breathe. If they continued the torture you would die. At some point it will kill you. It's fallacious to say that there is no physical component to it, as there most certainly is.

Are you okay with mock torture? Psychological torture?

Cycloptichorn

Wouldnt "mock torture" be a form of psychological torture?
If you are defining it as loud music, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, constant light, and some other forms, then I have no problem with psychological torture.

mysteryman wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Do I support any form of physical torture?
No, I dont.

But I dont consider waterboarding physical torture.
Yes, there is a physical aspect to it, but it is mainly a form of mental stress.
It mkaes you think you are drowning, even though you arent actually drowning.

Let me make my position crystal clear.

I do not support torture, but I do support doing whatever it takes to save the men in my platoon (short of murder or permanent harm).
War isnt fair, unless you think that "fair" means that all of your troops come home.

I support doing whatever it takes to allow that to happen.

I disagree. When you are waterboarded, you are being suffocated. It isn't a question of 'makes you feel like.' You aren't lying there, all cool, just relaxing, your body secretly okay but your brain thinking that you are going to die. You can't breathe. If they continued the torture you would die. At some point it will kill you. It's fallacious to say that there is no physical component to it, as there most certainly is.

Are you okay with mock torture? Psychological torture?

Cycloptichorn

Wouldnt "mock torture" be a form of psychological torture?
If you are defining it as loud music, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, constant light, and some other forms, then I have no problem with psychological torture.

I'd first like you to admit that suffocating someone is physical torture. That's what waterboarding does - it prevents the subject from breathing in a controlled fashion. If you keep it up, they will die.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Do I support any form of physical torture?
No, I dont.

But I dont consider waterboarding physical torture.
Yes, there is a physical aspect to it, but it is mainly a form of mental stress.
It mkaes you think you are drowning, even though you arent actually drowning.

Let me make my position crystal clear.

I do not support torture, but I do support doing whatever it takes to save the men in my platoon (short of murder or permanent harm).
War isnt fair, unless you think that "fair" means that all of your troops come home.

I support doing whatever it takes to allow that to happen.

I disagree. When you are waterboarded, you are being suffocated. It isn't a question of 'makes you feel like.' You aren't lying there, all cool, just relaxing, your body secretly okay but your brain thinking that you are going to die. You can't breathe. If they continued the torture you would die. At some point it will kill you. It's fallacious to say that there is no physical component to it, as there most certainly is.

Are you okay with mock torture? Psychological torture?

Cycloptichorn

Wouldnt "mock torture" be a form of psychological torture?
If you are defining it as loud music, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, constant light, and some other forms, then I have no problem with psychological torture.

I'd first like you to admit that suffocating someone is physical torture. That's what waterboarding does - it prevents the subject from breathing in a controlled fashion. If you keep it up, they will die.

Cycloptichorn

I have no problem admitting that.
However, the subject doesnt die, if its done right.
So,it causes stress because the person THINKS they are going to die, even though they arent and dont.

How about putting a gun to someone's head and telling them 'talk, or this is it' and mock executing them?

We could get actors to play members of his family, and mock execute and rape them. You'd be cool with that?

I would have no problem with this.
It isnt torture to make someone think something happened.


Why even bother with the waterboarding? You could use a belt and just tighten, tighten, tighten until the guy signaled his willingness to talk.

Belts leave marks, and if its a leather belt it might shrink if it gets wet, that might kill someone and the object is to avoid that.


I don't understand your position that killing someone and stopping just before they die, is not torture. It is torture.

If you stop before they die, you havent killed them.

I believe in doing whatever it takes, short of murder or permanent harm, to insure the safety of US troops.

War isnt pretty or fair, and I want ALL my people to come home.

Cycloptichorn

If mysteryman or Bushie is doing it it aint torture. Simple.

I don't believe in doing 'whatever it takes' to protect us.

Your attitude is barbaric. Honestly. You state,

"It isn't torture to make someone think something happened. "

Psychological torture is the cruelest and most destructive form of torture.

I'm saddened and disappointed that your sense of right and wrong ends when someone isn't a US troop or citizen.

Cycloptichorn

mysteryman, I'm the one who quoted Pat Tillman on Iraq, "this war is so fu*king illegal". That's a far cry from saying he deserved to die. But I understand your reasons for lying. And I understand why Pat Tillman took 3 shots to the forehead and why the Pentagon lied about his death.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I don't believe in doing 'whatever it takes' to protect us.

Your attitude is barbaric. Honestly. You state,

"It isn't torture to make someone think something happened. "

Psychological torture is the cruelest and most destructive form of torture.

I'm saddened and disappointed that your sense of right and wrong ends when someone isn't a US troop or citizen.

Cycloptichorn

MY sense of right and wrong doesnt end that way.
I just dont think that using "coersive interrogation" is torture, not in the literal sense of the phrase.

And yes, I do think that the lives of US soldiers are more important then the lives of those trying to kill them.
Sorry, but thats the way it is.

blueflame1 wrote:

If mysteryman or Bushie is doing it it aint torture. Simple.

I would only totally approve of torture if it was being done to you.

Since you are the one that laughs when US soldiers get killed, since you are the one that said Pat Tillman deserved to die, then for those comments alone you deserve to be tortured.

Other then that, your original comment is pure BS.

WASHINGTON - The Justice Department has reopened a long-dormant inquiry into the government's warrantless wiretapping program, a major policy shift only days into the tenure of Attorney General Michael Mukasey.

Again with the Nazi's? Is that all you German's think of? How other's may be just as bad as yourselves? (Like that could happen.)