Waterboarding

mysteryman, if your daughter was waterboarded would you still think waterboarding wasn't torture? How bout if she was left naked in very cold damp conditions for a month with neverending, extremely loud heavy metal music bursting her eardrums. Torture?

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blueflame1 wrote:

mysteryman, if your daughter was waterboarded would you still think waterboarding wasn't torture? How bout if she was left naked in very cold damp conditions for a month with neverending, extremely loud heavy metal music bursting her eardrums. Torture?

I cant give you an answer to this question.
I have no children (that I know of) so I cant say how I would feel.

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Not to speak for MM, but if my daughter becomes am Islamic terrorist working with Al Qaeda, or some other terrorist organization and the detain and interrogate her, I would expect them to use something besides harsh language.

However, as my daughter has every intention in the world of being a princess when she grows up, I doubt I have to worry about it.

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mysteryman, as usual you cop out. How bout your mom? If your mother was waterboarded would you still think waterboarding wasn't torture? How bout if she was left naked in very cold damp conditions for a month with neverending, extremely loud heavy metal music bursting her eardrums. Torture? You weren't hatched I assume. You do have a mother?

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blueflame1 wrote:

mysteryman, as usual you cop out. How bout your mom? If your mother was waterboarded would you still think waterboarding wasn't torture? How bout if she was left naked in very cold damp conditions for a month with neverending, extremely loud heavy metal music bursting her eardrums. Torture? You weren't hatched I assume. You do have a mother?

Yes, unlike you I do have a mother.

If she was a terrorist and had info our govt needed, then I would have no problem with the treatments you describe.
As her son I might not like it, but as a soldier I would have no problem with it being done.

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mysteryman, Razz

How bout if she was a suspected terrorist? Many the Bushies have tortured were found innocent and later released.

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mysteryman wrote:

... but as a soldier I would have no problem with it being done.

Actually, MM, soldiers are supposed to refuse to participate in war crimes. I see that you've swallowed the whole ball of wax and war crimes to you are just routine soldiering.

What you really mean is "as a hired gun, a racketeer, a mafioso underling", ... .

I guess you can be counted on to be there for the final march into Hell.

Mark Twain: Often it does seem a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat.

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Don't negotiate or debate with terrorists. One of them right there ^.

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cjhsa wrote:

Don't negotiate or ... .

Did your parole officer allow you to go to Michigan or are you just presently there until it gets too hot?

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JTT wrote:

cjhsa wrote:
Don't negotiate or ... .

Did your parole officer allow you to go to Michigan or are you just presently there until it gets too hot?

Someone just lost the debate and copped to the enemy combatant charge.

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in my humble opinion, *anyone* that supports the use of methods like this is worthless, barely human scum, and would probably create a better world by simply killing themselves. after all, they've become the terrorist as well.

what ideals are left then, but suffering, death, and hypocrisy? you call yourself "american." f-ck you.

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Well, it really seems that some Nazi ideals survived in the USA, tinygiraffe.

But even they knew that such wasn't only illegal ...

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blueflame1 wrote:

...How bout if she was a suspected terrorist?...

Yes, that is the real question. If, to your knowledge, your son, daughter, mother was not a terrorist, but the government picked him/her up, said they received an annonymous tip about terrorism, and tortured them, does that work? That is why our torture policy has damaged the US far more than 911. All those relatives and their friends think we are no better than terrorists ourselves. Instead of choosing between the good guys and the bad guys, they see only bad guys.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, it really seems that some Nazi ideals survived in the USA, tinygiraffe.

But even they knew that such wasn't only illegal ...

Again with the Nazi's? Is that all you German's think of? How other's may be just as bad as yourselves? (Like that could happen.)

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McGentrix wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
Well, it really seems that some Nazi ideals survived in the USA, tinygiraffe.

But even they knew that such wasn't only illegal ...

Again with the Nazi's? Is that all you German's think of? How other's may be just as bad as yourselves? (Like that could happen.)

I don't get the comparison either. I think what we're seeing is the result of 60 years of socialism. They wouldn't know a real Nazi if one shoved them in a shower.

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McGentrix wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
Well, it really seems that some Nazi ideals survived in the USA, tinygiraffe.

But even they knew that such wasn't only illegal ...

Again with the Nazi's? Is that all you German's think of? How other's may be just as bad as yourselves? (Like that could happen.)

What do you mean, "like that could happen". Clearly it DID happen and continues to happen in many parts of the world. How is it that you think it couldn't happen?

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cjhsa wrote:

I think what we're seeing is the result of 60 years of socialism. They wouldn't know a real Nazi if one shoved them in a shower.

That's just .... very interesting.

Wikipedia:

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4238/53825241yf2.jpg

60 years socialism , you said, cjhsa.

I didn't live in the GDR nor had any of their ideas ever had a influence in our politics - besides that 'Die Linke' is the smaller partner in two (I think) state governments ... in the 'new states' that is.

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McGentrix wrote:

Again with the Nazi's? Is that all you German's think of? How other's may be just as bad as yourselves? (Like that could happen.)

Well, while cjhsa accused us wrongly for living for 60 years under socialism, you've chosen the other side and allege that we're all Nazis.

I can imagine that some have this opinion. But those can't read. Or have forgotten what they were taught in history classes at school.

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Do I support any form of physical torture?
No, I dont.

But I dont consider waterboarding physical torture.
Yes, there is a physical aspect to it, but it is mainly a form of mental stress.
It mkaes you think you are drowning, even though you arent actually drowning.

Let me make my position crystal clear.

I do not support torture, but I do support doing whatever it takes to save the men in my platoon (short of murder or permanent harm).
War isnt fair, unless you think that "fair" means that all of your troops come home.

I support doing whatever it takes to allow that to happen.

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mysteryman wrote:

Do I support any form of physical torture?
No, I dont.

But I dont consider waterboarding physical torture.
Yes, there is a physical aspect to it, but it is mainly a form of mental stress.
It mkaes you think you are drowning, even though you arent actually drowning.

Let me make my position crystal clear.

I do not support torture, but I do support doing whatever it takes to save the men in my platoon (short of murder or permanent harm).
War isnt fair, unless you think that "fair" means that all of your troops come home.

I support doing whatever it takes to allow that to happen.

I disagree. When you are waterboarded, you are being suffocated. It isn't a question of 'makes you feel like.' You aren't lying there, all cool, just relaxing, your body secretly okay but your brain thinking that you are going to die. You can't breathe. If they continued the torture you would die. At some point it will kill you. It's fallacious to say that there is no physical component to it, as there most certainly is.

Are you okay with mock torture? Psychological torture?

Cycloptichorn

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