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I have a strong desire to comprehend stuff

 
 
coberst
 
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 03:28 am
I have a strong desire to comprehend stuff

I claim that comprehending is a hierarchy and can usefully be thought of as a pyramid. At the base of the pyramid is awareness that is followed by consciousness, which is awareness plus attention. Knowing follows consciousness and understanding is at the pinnacle of the pyramid.

Two aspects of this comprehension idea deserve elaboration: consciousness and understanding.

When I was a youngster, probably seven or eight, my father took me with him when he drove to a local farm to pick corn for use in the café the family managed. We drove for a significant amount of time down local dirt roads to a farm with a field of growing corn.

We went into the fields with our bushel baskets and filled them with corn-on-the-cob. Dad showed me how to choose the corn to pick and how to snatch the cob from the stalk.

On the drive home I was amazed to observe the numerous fields of corn we passed on the way back to town. I can distinctly remember thinking to myself, why did I not see these fields of corn while we were driving to the farm earlier?

Today I have an answer to that question. I now say that on the way to the farm I was aware of corn-on-the-cob but on the way back home I was conscious of corn-on-the-cob. There was a very significant difference in my perceptions regarding corn-on-the-cob before and after the experience.

We are aware of many things but conscious of only a small number of things. We were aware of Iraq before the war but now we are conscious of Iraq. There is a very important distinction between awareness and consciousness and it is important for us to recognize this difference.

To be conscious of a matter signifies a focus of the intellect. Consciousness of a matter is the first step, which may lead to an understanding of the matter. Consciousness of a matter is a necessary condition for knowing and for understanding of that matter. Consciousness is a necessary but not sufficient condition for knowing and understanding to take place.

When discussing a topic about which I am knowledgeable most people will, because they recognize the words I am using, treat the matter as old stuff. They recognize the words therefore they consider the matter as something they already know and do not consider as important. Because they are aware of the subject it is difficult to gain their attention when I attempt to go beyond the shallowness of their perception. The communication problem seems to be initially overcoming their awareness and reaching consciousness.

Understanding is a long step beyond knowing. Understanding is the creation of meaning. Understanding represents a rare instance when intellection and emotion join hands and places me in an empathetic position with a domain of knowledge. When I understand I have connected the dots and have created a unity that includes myself. I have created something that is meaningful, which means that I have placed that domain of knowledge within my domain that I call my self. I understand because I have a very intimate connection with a model of reality that I have created. It is that eureka moment that happens rarely but is a moment of ecstasy. As Carl Sagan says "understanding is a kind of ecstasy".

When I read I almost always read non fiction. I have tried to read fiction and to learn from reading what is considered to be good literature. However, my effort to read good literature fails because I thing that learning by reading good literature is a very inefficient means for gaining knowledge and understanding.

I claim that I can acquire more knowledge in one hour by reading non fiction than I can while reading good literature for ten hours. That is, I claim that learning by reading non fiction is ten times more efficient than learning by reading fiction, i.e. good literature.

Do you agree that acquiring knowledge by reading non fiction is ten times as efficient as from reading fiction?
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 12:16 pm
Quote:
On the drive home I was amazed to observe the numerous fields of corn we passed on the way back to town. I can distinctly remember thinking to myself, why did I not see these fields of corn while we were driving to the farm earlier


An explanation for this was given by Piaget without the need to refer to the nebulous concept of "consciousness".

Simplistically there is a continous two-way interaction between "cognitive states"(C) and "states of the world"(W) such that C1 perceives W1 which causes C1 to change to C2 which perceives W2, and so on.
(References Flavell "The Develpmental Psychology of Jean Piaget" and general texts on "Finite State Machine Theory")

BTW, the Piaget's answer to your question on "efficiency" is likely to be "no" because "cognitive states" (or "schemata") are consolidated by their exercise in everyday life scenarios of personal significance to the perceiver. In that respect "interesting fictional examples" would seem a good substitute,
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 02:01 pm
Quote:
Do you agree that acquiring knowledge by reading non fiction is ten times as efficient as from reading fiction?


I think this question is far too simplistic to shed any light on such a diverse issue as knowledge.

There are more issues to consider than just what you're reading. For example what you're looking for, in essence, why you're reading. If you're looking for a specific piece of knowledge, many other pieces of information will go unnoticed.

Also, when reading non-fiction, the knowledge you absorb is most likely concerning one specific issue. Tales of fiction often have a way of shedding light on many subjects, since it is not neccesarily stated in the text what the knowledge is about, which may lead you to apply it on a more universal scale.
0 Replies
 
coberst
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 02:28 pm
fresco wrote:
Quote:
On the drive home I was amazed to observe the numerous fields of corn we passed on the way back to town. I can distinctly remember thinking to myself, why did I not see these fields of corn while we were driving to the farm earlier


An explanation for this was given by Piaget without the need to refer to the nebulous concept of "consciousness".

Simplistically there is a continous two-way interaction between "cognitive states"(C) and "states of the world"(W) such that C1 perceives W1 which causes C1 to change to C2 which perceives W2, and so on.
(References Flavell "The Develpmental Psychology of Jean Piaget" and general texts on "Finite State Machine Theory")

BTW, the Piaget's answer to your question on "efficiency" is likely to be "no" because "cognitive states" (or "schemata") are consolidated by their exercise in everyday life scenarios of personal significance to the perceiver. In that respect "interesting fictional examples" would seem a good substitute,


Is Piaget a cognitive scientist or psychologist or perhaps something else?

Perhaps Piaget calls all of this becoming conscious of something. Or perhaps s/he has no name for it even though others call it consciousness.
0 Replies
 
coberst
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 02:33 pm
Cyracuz

I never thought of my question as being so complex. It seems like a fairly ordinary question that I suspect many people might ask.

Since we do not have a good standard for measuring the things you speak of I wonder how the colleges manage to give grades for such things.
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 02:47 pm
grades on such things are given relative to the performances of other students in the same class or in semester. So if a class has many students of high performance, a student will have to do better to get the grade B, for instance, that if he was in a class with students of a lower performance level. That is why grades on subjects that do not deal in fixed answers in the way mathematics does, are slightly misgiving.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 03:15 pm
In reading good literature I accomplish at least three things: (1) I have wonderful experiences, a kind of empathic living of other lives, (2) I learn in an intimate way of the human spirit, and (3) I promote my own personal growth/development.

"Knowledge" is not just about quantifiable/measureable "facts"; fiction can provide insight and understanding into matters of meaning, values and feelings.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 03:27 pm
The major Nice thing about being done with gradual school is being able to sit down and read a good book simply because i enjoyed it.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 03:28 pm
JL

It seems to me that coberst chooses to focus on the measurable facts. The conception that fictional literature has no educational value seems to be a relic of decades past, but there are still those who maintain it.

I remember when I was a kid, and the general opinion pretty much everywhere was that videogames were a waste of time, and degenerating to growing children.
Today the educational value of videogames is well known, and there are also many other benefits to it.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 03:51 pm
coberst,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Piaget
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 04:03 pm
an ongoing process
comprehend, verb: to fit as much information together as possible, weighing it against what still doesn't fit.

see also, "comprehensive"

Quote:
The conception that fictional literature has no educational value seems to be a relic of decades past, but there are still those who maintain it.


far too many!
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 04:26 pm
Perhaps. But things are changing, and in some areas videogames are even being incorporated into educational models.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 05:12 pm
Dys, that's also a major "Nice" about retirement: I can now read what I like, not just what my work requires that I read.
0 Replies
 
 

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