Life's big questions - a religious comparison

JPB, Don't wish to confuse the young tikes, but how about starting before Hinduism, Buddhism, Judism, Christianity and Islam?

There were mythological gods, sun gods, animal gods, and king gods.

0 Replies

Asherman wrote:

You are doing a pretty fair job of representing Buddhist positions on these various questions. Certainly better than most Sunday School children are likely to get from most presentations.

Thank you, Asherman. These are not my original documents, but were provided to me as part of the source materials to use in preparation of the curriculum. I've considered using them as handouts but wanted additional feedback first. I'll include your other points in the discussion materials for the teachers.

TheCorrectResponse wrote:

Again I'd be real careful about how you present the idea of good/evil, especially as seen form the Eastern perspective.

Here is an example:
<snip>
Is one answer right and one wrong?

I believe it was the German philosopher Author Schopenhauer who said every human act is evil to someone!

We spend two weeks later in the year discussing morals and values. One of the lessons consists entirely of discussing situational incidences similar to your example. It started out as a small portion of the planned curriculum but the kids enjoyed the discussion so much that we threw out the rest of the activities and spent the entire time discussing moral dilemmas and judging other's choices. We've changed the curriculum to spend that entire lesson on these discussions.

Setanta wrote:

Additionally, Southern Baptists are listed, but not any other variety of Baptists--and there are many, many types of Baptists. Congregationalists (known in England as Independents, or Independent Congregationalists) are not listed at all, and probably would fit under the rather vague rubric of "liberal Christians." Given that those Puritans who did not become Presbyterians became Congregationalists or Independents, and that those among them who did not become Methodists remain Congregationalists to this day, that is leaving out a major portion of the Protestants in the English-speaking world, and a crucial segment, as they are the theological heritors of the Puritans, a body of believers who were once so powerful as to have unseated and executed the King of England.

Good point about the Baptists. The Congregational Christian Church officially merged with the Evangelical and Reformed Church in 1957 to become the United Church of Christ (listed under liberal Christian denominations). As with any merger, there are still some Congregationalist churches and some E&R churches, just as there are still some Unitarian churches and Universalist churches after the formation of the UUA between those two groups in 1961.

setanta wrote:

Additionally, Judaism is referred to only in terms of Orthodox and Reform Judaism, and therefore ignores Conservative Judaism. Furthermore, it ignores the important distinctions within Orthodox Judaism, which has lead the a separate body of Haredic Jews, often referred to as "ultra-orthodox" Jews, and their most visible subset, the Hasidic Jews.

Islam is treated as a monolithic body, which is truly incredible. In today's world, not to understand that Islam is as fragmented and sectarian as, for example, Protestantism, verges on a crime of intellectual hebetude. The major division in Islam is between Sunni and Shi'a--which is the rough equivalent of the divide between Catholic and Protestant. But just as there are many, many types of Protestants, and just as there are even at least two different types of Catholics (Roman Catholics and Byzantine Catholics--which ignores the distinctions in the middle east made between Orthodox and Catholic Maronites, Orthodox and Catholic Syriacs, etc., etc.)--that is such a gross oversimplification that one hardly knows where to begin to explain distinctions. Among the the Sunni (often misleadingly referred to as orthodox Muslims), there are many sects, ranging from ultra-conservative "fundamentalists" such as the Wahabbis (most notorious today as the sect from which bin Laden springs), to the "mainstream," modern "liberal" Muslims. Among the Shi'a, there are also valid and important distinctions, as between the twelver (majority) sect and the sevener (minority) sect--as well as people such as the Fatamids and Druze, who claim to be Shi'a Muslims. Many, perhaps most, Muslims deny that the Druze are even practitioners of Islam; the Fatimids are, essentially either twelver or sevener Shi'ites as they developed in Egypt and North Africa.

I agree with the over-generalizations and we do cover some of those distinctions, or at least state that they are over-generalizations as you suggest in the next post. We spend one week on each lesson and discuss the basic tenets of each, as well as these questions. It's done on a 12-13 year old level with the hope that it will trigger an interest in deeper study (probably at a much later age) and the encouragement to do so.

setanta wrote:

Most incredible of all to me is that JPB's analysis completely ignores the existence of Orthodox Christianity, which is arguably the oldest form of Christianity, and descends directly from the primitive Christian Church.

This is covered in much greater detail in a separate class on the history of Christianity. One class is devoted to the early evolution up to the Reformation and the next one discusses the Reformation through today. It's not all-encompassing, but does a fairly good job on the Great Schism.

setanta wrote:

I think it is important to point all of this out, because you are attempting to push a great many diverse and often widely divergent sects into little boxes into which they don't readily fit. You are attempting to distinguish Catholics (as if there were only one type of Catholic--look up the word ultramontane sometime) from all other Christians, even though Lutherans and Episcopalians are more like Catholics than they are the Protestants sects with which you have lumped them. You ignore the Orthodox Christians altogether, oversimplify Judaism into two conveniently swallowed pills, and treat Islam as a single, monolithic entity. All of this constitutes a failure to teach your students how truly diverse and divergent religious belief can be, and in actuality is, in this world. You don't discuss (apparently) Animism, you haven't mentioned Baha'i, you don't mention the Jains nor the Parsees--both sects with millions of members in and outside of India. You have barely scratched the surface of religious diversity, and much of what you present represents naive oversimplification.

Agreed, and it's intentionally so. We hope to get them to think about their own feelings on spirituality and religion with the knowledge that there are many diverse thoughts and practices. As a religion, we don't give them a set of beliefs but give them the basic tenets of the world's main religions so that they have an understanding of what other people believe and encourage them to walk their own paths.

The end of the year includes attending services of six area denominations. We attend a Synagogue, Presbyterian Church, a Mosque, and Hindu, Buddhist and Baha'i Temples. The kids are given detailed presentations by local leaders on the faith traditions of each religion before they attend the service. Walter and ci were here in May shortly after our group attended the Baha'i Temple. I was able to give them the same level of information we give to our kids. I think it was deep enough for informational purposes.

cicerone imposter wrote:

JPB, Don't wish to confuse the young tikes, but how about starting before Hinduism, Buddhism, Judism, Christianity and Islam?

There were mythological gods, sun gods, animal gods, and king gods.

.

We do that as part of the introduction materials with primal and ancient religions. Actually we present in chronological order beginning with primal/earth-centric, then moving forward through Islam.

0 Replies

The sixth question --

Comparison of Religions - What causes undeserved suffering?

Hinduism

Many believe that suffering is a result of past-life greed, hatred, and spiritual ignorance, which returns as suffering (karma). Coping with suffering is sometimes viewed as valuable in furthering spiritual growth. Suffering is also seen as illusory, in that it results from attachment to bodily pleasure and pain, and only the Absolute, or God, truly exists.

Buddhism (Theravada)

Unenlightened life is suffering, and the cessation of this suffering is the primary goal of Buddhism--to reach Nirvana, to end cycles of rebirth. Suffering is a result of past-life greed, hatred, and ignorance, which return as suffering (karma), while compassion toward others who suffer reduces the effects of karma.

Buddhism (Mahayana)

Life is suffering. Suffering results from this and past life greed, hatred, and ignorance, which, unless mitigated, returns as suffering (karma). Intense suffering may be viewed as the release of karma, hastening one's liberation. Suffering is illusion or ignorance of one's true nature as Buddha.

Islam

Suffering is desired by Allah to erase one's sins. Some suffering is Satan's doing or is the work of his spirit world cohorts ("Jinn") and is allowed by Allah as a test of humility and faith; suffering and adversity strengthen one's faith, as pain often leads to repentance and prayer.

Judaism (Orthodox)

Sometimes it is believed that suffering is caused by a weakness in one's devotion to God. Generally, it is believed that God gave humans free will to feel pleasure and pain, and His purpose in allowing deep suffering of the innocent must be good even if mysterious. God suffers along with the sufferer. Some Jews (e.g. the Hasidim) believe that suffering is punishment for past-life sins. Knowing why God allows suffering is not as important as knowing that God will punish the perpetrators.

Judaism (Reform)

God gave humans free will to feel pleasure and pain, and his purpose in allowing deep suffering of the innocent must be good even if mysterious. It is generally believed that God suffers along with the sufferer. More important than knowing why God allows suffering is to work to help those in need.

Christian (Catholicism)

Some suffering is caused by the inheritance of mortality originating from Adam and Eve's disobedience to God, which includes vulnerability to illness and disease. Also, Satan rules the earth, causing pain and suffering. Suffering is God's design to test, teach, or strengthen belief in Him; the greater the suffering of innocent believers, the greater will be their reward after life.

Christian (Conservative Protestantism): for example, Pentecostal, Southern Baptist, fundamentalist, evangelical, Lutheran,Anglican/Episcopalian

Some suffering is caused by the inheritance of mortality originating from Adam and Eve's disobedience to God, which includes vulnerability to illness and disease. Also, Satan rules the earth, causing pain and suffering. Many believe that suffering is God's design to test, teach, or strengthen belief in Him; the greater the suffering of innocent believers, the greater will be their reward after life.

Christian (Liberal Protestantism) : for example, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, United Church of Christ, Anglican/Episcopalian

Most Liberal Christians do not believe that Satan causes suffering. Some believe suffering is part of God's plan, will, or design, even if we don't immediately understand it. Some don't believe in any spiritual reasons for suffering, and most take a humanistic approach to helping those in need.

Unitarian Universalism

There are diverse beliefs. Most Unitarians do not believe that Satan causes suffering. Some believe suffering is part of God's plan, will, or design, even if we don't immediately understand it. Some don't believe in any spiritual reasons for suffering, and most take a humanistic approach to helping those in need.

0 Replies

Discussing the Orthodox Christians in a class on the history of Christianity, beside imputing an importance to Christianity over other belief sets which is revealing about the attitude of the UU, seems to suggest that Orthodox Christianity is not part of the modern world. The Serbs, for example, are Orthodox Christians, and considered that good enough reason to kill Catholics like the Croats and Slovenes, and "Turks" (i.e., Muslims) such as the Bosnians and the Kosovars. And the Orthodox Church is no more monolithic than are any of the other religions or sects which you have so grossly oversimplified. In the middle east, the principle Christian sects which were not "replanted" by modern proselytizing--the Maronites, the Syriacs, the Nestorians and others--are all distinguished by those which are "Orthodox" and those which are "Catholic." Which is to say, those who acknowledge the supremecy of the Ecumenical Patriarch at Constantinople and those who acknowledge the supermecy of the Pope. There are 23 seperate, distinct sects which acknowledge the Pope, and more than a dozen which acknowledge the Patriarch. There is a major distinction between the Greek Orthodox and the Russian Orthodox churches, and the Russian Orthodox was divided in the 17th century into the New Believers (majority) and the Old Believers (tiny minority), with the Old Believers surviving to this day (chiefly in the Ukraine).

I'm sorry, but your attitude is too smug for me--you act as though you have all the bases covered in a survey, and you have hardly scratched the surface of religious belief in the world.

What about Animism? What about the Baha'i? What about the Jains? You leave out more than you mention.

0 Replies

Setanta wrote:

I'm sorry, but your attitude is too smug for me--you act as though you have all the bases covered in a survey, and you have hardly scratched the surface of religious belief in the world.

What about Animism? What about the Baha'i? What about the Jains? You leave out more than you mention.

Not trying to be smug - sorry if it's coming as such. I would guess that more UUs relate to Animism than most faith traditions. We don't discuss it implicity, but do discuss pantheism and polytheism, particularly in how they are enmeshed within the other faiths. Baha'i is taught specifically during our visit to the Baha'i Temple prior to attending their worship service and the Jains are admittedly given lip-service as part of the Hindu materials.

0 Replies

I understand that you are already involved in "teaching" about comparative religions, and therefore that you are probably unwilling to canvass major revision of your themes and methods. Perhaps, though, you might consider some things for the future.

The first is that you have placed your principle emphasis on Christianity, and have grossly oversimplified the categories you have created (and making a distinction between Catholics and all other Christians, while equating Lutherans and Episcopalians with "liberal" Protestant sects is just plain wrong--and evidence of huge ignorance). The second is that your emphasis is, thereafter, on Judaism and then Islam, in both casing grossly oversimplifying distinctions within those confessions. Finally, your emphasis suggests that Hinduism and Buddhism constitute the only other significant religious beliefs in the world. It is highly likely that various forms of animism constitute the most widely held form of religious belief--it would be a toss up, as Christianity and Islam can only account for less than half of the world's population, and all other known organized religions don't add up to a significant fraction of either of those major confessional groupings. Judaism is given an emphasis which is not warranted on the basis of the numbers of those who adhere to one of the several confessional distinctions within Judaism--this is probably a result of the Christian prejudice which skews all of your other views.

Your entire program is hopelessly biased toward Abrahamic confessions in general and Christianity in particular. That is not comparative religion, is a comparison of religions originating in the middle east, with a cursory and misleading nod to two only of the religions which originated in the Subcontinent.

0 Replies

In the opening post I said,

Quote:

I'm teaching a class to 7th graders in comparative religions. It's a Sunday School class for UU kids as they begin to study their own beliefs and work towards putting words to them. I'd like to post some materials I have for some of the different questions we study and get additional feedback from followers of the various religious doctrines we present. I'll say upfront that these are generalizations and probably over-generalizations. I'd like to know if any of the material is flagrantly wrong or if there are other salient points on each topic. Thanks in advance. The questions are:

The materials presented are intended to support a curriculum for 12-13 year olds. They are admittedly over-generalizations and are not intended to be deep enough to be scholarly. The first question we ask is, "Why did your parents make you get out of bed and come here this morning?" The idea is to make them think, not to give them answers. These are not my source materials, but would like feedback on any inaccuracies they contain or other points related to the individual questions. The questions here do not encompass all of the topics presented in the two-year Coming of Age program.

The next question --

Comparison of Religions - How do you achieve salvation?

Hinduism

To become liberated from cycles of rebirth and merge with the Universal Spirit, Brahman, one must worship God or gods, do good works, and live correctly according to the dharma (based on one's caste and phase of life), go on pilgrimages to the holy places in India, and learn through meditation, yoga, and, with the help of a master, the truth of one's true nature as one with the Universal Spirit. An ascetic lifestyle is recommended in the last phase of life. Some Hindus believe salvation is granted by the grace of a forgiving God.

Buddhism (Theravada)

Enlightenment is an individual journey to Nirvana (complete bliss)--liberation from suffering and cycles of rebirth--acheived by following the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path. To eliminate karma, which causes rebirth, one must extinguish the belief in a separate self that give rise to cravings, desires, and attachments. The path to enlightenment includes loving-kindness and compassion, moral conduct, charity, wisdom, and meditation. arma), while compassion toward others who suffer reduces the effects of karma.

Buddhism (Mahayana)

The goal is enlightenment, leading to Nirvana--liberation from cycles of rebirth and suffering--which is life. All are already endowed with Buddha-nature but need to come to realize fully that only the Ultimate Reality (the great "void" or "emptiness") is real (or nonconditional) and permanent. The Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path show the way, along with worship of the essential Buddha. One must work to extinguish self: All worldly cravings, desires, and attachments, through loving-kindness, compassion, charity, moral conduct, wisdom, and meditation. Renouncing worldly possessions and goals is not necessary for the laity, if balanced. Buddha taught the middle path, moderation. Human and spirit world Bodhisattvas are sought for help in gaining enlightenment. Pure Land Mahayana Buddhists aim to find a place of eternal Nirvana in a paradisiacal Pure Land, attainable by calling out the name of the Buddha ruler of the Pure Land.

Islam

Obey God's law and Muhammad's doctrine. The path to heaven includes confessing faith in one God, Allah, and that Muhammad is His Messenger; recitation of five prayers daily; giving alms; fasting throughout Ramadan, pilgrimage to Mecca. Confessing and repenting one's sins is between the person and God, made only to Allah and for Allah. Strict obedience to God's laws (conveyed in the Qur'an) and His prophet's doctrine is required.

Judaism (Orthodox)

Salvation is achieved through faith and continual prayer to God, strict adherence to divine commandments (Jewish Law), including dietary restrictions, to give to the poor, "love your neighbor as yourself," bring God's message to humanity by example (a responsibility of God's "chosen people"). Confessions and repentances are expressed through Yom Kippur when one fasts, asks forgiveness from others and from themselves, and commits to do good deeds in the future.

Judaism (Reform)

The main emphasis is on living the kind of life that God commands, which will surely be rewarded if there is an afterlife. Most believe God is forgiving of all; there is no hell to which some are condemned. Salvation is achieved through faith and prayer to God, good works, concern for the earth and humanity, and behavior that does no harm to others. The extent to which one follows Jewish Law is an individual decision.

Christian (Catholicism)

All are already saved (through Christ's death and resurrection), are still being saved (through the Church), and will be saved in the future (second coming of Christ). It demands faith in and prayer to God and Jesus Christ, good works, and sacraments, including only one (infant) baptism. One's salvation must be restored after commission of a mortal sin through the sacraments of repentance/confession and Communion.

Christian (Conservative Protestantism): for example, Pentecostal, Southern Baptist, fundamentalist, evangelical, Lutheran,Anglican/Episcopalian

Salvation is granted by the grace of God alone, through faith in Jesus Christ alone as Lord and Savior--not through "works" such as moral behavior, good deeds, and generally not through sacraments. Some believe that once saved, or born again, always saved. Many Conservative Protestants regard baptism, when performed, as a practice for adult believers, rather than infants/children, as it is considered an act of commitment to the fellowship. Some Protestants regard baptism as a washing away of sin, which may be repeated. Among most, confession/repentance is considered personal, between the individual and God, unless a public sin is involved, and confession to a pastor, when offered, is optional. Some use exorcism to remove indwelling evil spirits. Pentecostalists believe that speaking in tongues is a gift from God as evidence of having been born again, and some regard it as the only evidence of having been born again. Preaching the gospel, the Word of God, is often regarded as a means for building faith in Christ.

Christian (Liberal Protestantism) : for example, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, United Church of Christ, Anglican/Episcopalian

There are various beliefs: Some believe all will go to heaven, as God is loving and forgiving. Others believe salvation lies in doing good works and no harm to others, regardless of faith. Some believe baptism is important. Some believe the concept of salvation after death is symbolic or nonexistent.

Unitarian Universalism

Some believe in salvation through faith in God and Jesus Christ, along with doing good works and doing no harm to others. Many believe all will be saved, as God is good and forgiving. Some believe in reincarnation and the necessity to eliminate personal greed or to learn all of life's lessons before achieving enlightenment or salvation. For some, the concepts of salvation or enlightenment are irrelevant or disbelieved.

0 Replies

You're peddling Christianity as the major world confessional grouping, and teaching things which are just plain wrong about Christianity, and then nodding at Islam and Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism. Calling your course a class in comparative religion is dishonest. The age of the children involved is not a valid excuse for peddling false information to them.

What about Animism--do you know anything about it? It is the granddaddy of all religious belief, probably informed the original Jainism (which is the ancestor of both Hinduism and Buddhism), and is the origin of Vodun and Santaria--and the various forms of Vodun and Santaria remain important belief sets in the Caribbean Islands, Brazil and Africa.

Your exercise is dishonest and misleading.

0 Replies

JPB wrote:

Christian (Catholicism)

Some suffering is caused by the inheritance of mortality originating from Adam and Eve's disobedience to God, which includes vulnerability to illness and disease. Also, Satan rules the earth, causing pain and suffering. Suffering is God's design to test, teach, or strengthen belief in Him; the greater the suffering of innocent believers, the greater will be their reward after life.

I've never seen the part of this I highlighted in red expressed in any Catholic theology.

0 Replies

Setanta wrote:

I understand that you are already involved in "teaching" about comparative religions, and therefore that you are probably unwilling to canvass major revision of your themes and methods. Perhaps, though, you might consider some things for the future.

The curriculum can be modified at any point and I'm more than willing to do so.

setanta wrote:

The first is that you have placed your principle emphasis on Christianity, and have grossly oversimplified the categories you have created (and making a distinction between Catholics and all other Christians, while equating Lutherans and Episcopalians with "liberal" Protestant sects is just plain wrong--and evidence of huge ignorance).

That's why I asked this ..

Quote:

I've also just noticed that the Anglican/Presbyterian and Lutheran churches are listed as examples of both liberal and conservative Christian. I wonder if that's intentional, indicating that some churches within those faiths are more conservative than others. Here

[/quote="setanta"]The second is that your emphasis is, thereafter, on Judaism and then Islam, in both casing grossly oversimplifying distinctions within those confessions. Finally, your emphasis suggests that Hinduism and Buddhism constitute the only other significant religious beliefs in the world. It is highly likely that various forms of animism constitute the most widely held form of religious belief--it would be a toss up, as Christianity and Islam can only account for less than half of the world's population, and all other known organized religions don't add up to a significant fraction of either of those major confessional groupings. Judaism is given an emphasis which is not warranted on the basis of the numbers of those who adhere to one of the several confessional distinctions within Judaism--this is probably a result of the Christian prejudice which skews all of your other views.[/quote]

There isn't any intended emphasis and the lessons are currently presented chronologically with Christianity coming between Judaism and Islam. I'm not sure I see the Christian bias you find, but one seldom sees their own bias. That was precisely the question I asked earlier. Growing up Congregationalist, I certain carry that history.

setanta wrote:

Your entire program is hopelessly biased toward Abrahamic confessions in general and Christianity in particular. That is not comparative religion, is a comparison of religions originating in the middle east, with a cursory and misleading nod to two only of the religions which originated in the Subcontinent.

This portion of the program is focused only on how 'some' religions answer some of life's big questions. I don't disagree that it is narrow in scope, but it concerned only with introduction of alternative practices.

0 Replies

fishin wrote:

JPB wrote:
Christian (Catholicism)

Some suffering is caused by the inheritance of mortality originating from Adam and Eve's disobedience to God, which includes vulnerability to illness and disease. Also, Satan rules the earth, causing pain and suffering. Suffering is God's design to test, teach, or strengthen belief in Him; the greater the suffering of innocent believers, the greater will be their reward after life.

I've never seen the part of this I highlighted in red expressed in any Catholic theology.

Thanks, fishin, I'll check into it deeper.

The final question (issue) --

Comparison of Religions - Contemporary Issues

Hinduism

Abortion is considered an abomination, as the fetus deserves protection.

Views on homosexuality range from neutral to strong opposition, in part because sexual activity itself is generally regarded as contrary to enlightenment and, as such, is only acceptable within marriage for procreation.

Divorce and remarriage is traditionally and culturally unacceptable, although not prohibited by the scriptures. Divorce and remarriage of widows is becoming more common, however, among Hindus.

Buddhism (Theravada)

Abortion is considered murder, and all violent acts cause horrific karmic consequence.

Homosexuality in itself is not specifically condemned by scripture, but opinions vary, especially among various Buddhist cultures--e.g., Buddhists in the United States are generally very accepting, while some Asian Buddhists are generally strongly opposed to homosexuality.

It is believed that divorce wouldn't occur if one follows Buddhist precepts, but a couple is not condemned if they separate due to vast personal differences.

In Theravada countries, gender roles are generally traditional (e.g. woman as child caretakers and men as providers), but less rigid as contemporary demands are made on women (e.g. working women).

Buddhism (Mahayana)

Abortion is considered murder, and all violent acts cause horrific karmic consequence.

Homosexuality in itself is not specifically condemned by scripture, but opinions vary, especially among various Buddhist cultures--e.g., American Buddhists are generally very accepting, while Asian Buddhists are generally strongly opposed to homosexuality.

It is believed that divorce wouldn't occur if one follows Buddhist precepts, but a couple is not condemned if they separate due to vast personal differences.

Gender roles are generally traditional (e.g. women are child caretakers and men are providers), but are growing less rigid as society inflicts more and more contemporary demands (e.g. women working in increasing numbers).

Islam

Abortion is prohibited.

Homosexual behavior is condemned.

Marriage is a sacred contract (but not regarded as a sacrament), and although divorce is permitted, strong reconciliation attempts and measures are expected to be taken first, per the Qur'an, and there are some waiting periods and restrictions on multiple remarriage to the same woman. Remarriage is not prohibited.

Gender roles are designated in writing.

Judaism (Orthodox)

Judaism holds that human life begins upon first breath, and Jewish law requires abortion if necessary to save the mother's life prior to birth. Most believe that potential human life should never be terminated casually, but abortion is generally regarded as a personal decision, especially within the first 40 days of pregnancy.

Judaism (Reform)[\b]

Judaism holds that human life begins upon first breath, and Jewish law requires abortion if necessary to save the mother's life prior to birth. Most believe potential human life should never be terminated casually, but it is generally regarded as a personal decision, especially within the first 40 days of pregnancy.

Homosexuals are God's creation, and Jewish instruction is to love our neighbors as ourselves. Reform (and Conservative) Judaism have a long history of support for homosexual rights.

Christian (Catholicism)

Abortion is considered to be a form of murder, an act worthy of excommunication. Medical research which destroys fertilized embryos is wrong.

Homosexual acts are sinful.

Women are afforded the highest regard as mothers and wives. Marriage is considered a sacrament and permanent; divorce and remarriage are not acceptable unless the first marriage is annulled. Remarriage without an annulment results in inability to receive sacraments.

Euthanasia is sinful.

The death penalty is rarely justified.

Christian (Conservative Protestantism): for example, Pentecostal, Southern Baptist, fundamentalist, evangelical, Lutheran,Anglican/Episcopalian

Abortion is considered murder.

Positions among denominations on divorce vary from unacceptability of divorce and remarriage to acceptance of divorce in certain situations and remarriage.

Christian (Liberal Protestantism) : for example, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, United Church of Christ, Anglican/Episcopalian

Most churches teach that abortion is morally wrong, but many ultimately support a woman's right to choose, usually accompanied by policies to provide counseling on alternatives.

Many are accepting of homosexuality and gay rights.

Unitarian Universalism

The Unitarian Universalist Association's stance is to protect the personal right to choose abortion.

Other contemporary views include
working for equality for homosexuals,
gender equality,
a secular approach to divorce and remarriage,
working to end poverty,
promoting peace and nonviolence,
and environmental protection.

0 Replies

I suggest that you visit "religioustolerance.org"--it will be an eye-opener for you. I stopped by to see what i had left out, and was reminded of Sikhism (one of the "other" religions of the Subcontinent), Taoism, Confusianism (only marginally a "religion"), Shintosim, Gnosticism, as well as the "neo-pagans" and the "humanists." Based solely on numbers, Judaism shouldn't even have made your list--that it has reveals much about your prejudices. There are twice as many Sikhs in the world as there are confessional Jews (according to religious tolerance-dot-org). I think it would be very healthy for you to acknowledge your prejudice, and seek to dismantle it.

0 Replies

Religious belief, is, by the way, a very fluid thing. As this discussion progresses, the Anglican Church is fragmenting. Anglicans in the United States have already splintered, with a significant group disavowing the authority of the Anglican Church in England and the Archbishop of Canterbury over the issue of homosexual priests and homosexual marriage. Two American Anglicans have been "ordained" as bishops by the Anglican Church in Kenya, which, like most African Anglican churches is a conservative body. The Kenyan Church has repudiated the main church in England over the issue of homosexuality, and is actively reaching out to other Anglican congregations in the effort to found a separate Anglican Church which disavows homosexual marriage and homosexual priests.

You haven't hardly done your homework.

0 Replies

JPB wrote:

Christian (Catholicism)

All are already saved (through Christ's death and resurrection), are still being saved (through the Church), and will be saved in the future (second coming of Christ). It demands faith in and prayer to God and Jesus Christ, good works, and sacraments, including only one (infant) baptism. One's salvation must be restored after commission of a mortal sin through the sacraments of repentance/confession and Communion.

I don't know if I can clarify this properly but I'll wing it.

Anyway, "good works" aren't a requirement for salvation. They are an expected part of church cuommunity participation on earth but they won't get you anywhere beyond that. Baptism is also usually perfomed on infants but it can be done on people of any age. Baptism signifies entry intro the church (which, at the same time, removes "Original sin".)

Catholic theology holds that sins can be either "Mortal" or "Venial".
In both cases the sin must be commited knowingly and willifully. (i.e. someone who can't comprehend why an action is wrong can't be held accountable for that action and if forced to commit an act against their will it isn't a sin.)

A mortal sin is a serious offense. Restoration of grace requires confession and the completion of any pennance set. If confession and pennance are performed the person's soul is restored to a state of grace and they can enter heaven. If not, then their soul is condemned to an eternity in hell.

Venial sins are minor offenses and they do not prevent entry to heaven or require confession. Again, pennance removes the "mark" against the person. But venial sin never results in eternal damnation. (The church used to teach that if you died with venial sins on your soul then you went to purgatory as a form of temporal suffering to atone for those sins. The whole purgatory/limbo thing has been up in the air in recent years though so I don't don't what the current teachings are regarding the temporal suffering for those who die unrepentent.)

Communion is used in a lot of discussions on sin but there is a bit of confusion there. Most people use "Communion" today to only refer to the breaking of bread ritual. What is being spoken of though, is communion is the sense of relations with other members of the church. The point being that participating in the ritual itself won't do anything for their sins. Communing with fellow Catholics will.

0 Replies

Thank you, fishin', for your time in clarifying these points. I'll be sure to include them in the materials provided to the teachers and make appropriate clarifications to any handouts we give the kids.

Set, I don't know when this became about me, but this isn't about me, my knowledge, or my beliefs. I was given materials to use as part of a curriculum in self-reflection for youth and decided to bring them here for feedback from individuals who actually practice/participate in these traditions before passing on any potential mis-information to the kids. The materials themselves are used for informational purposes only and are not intended to have any bias or intended direction toward one true belief.

This is not intended to be an all-encompassing world religions class. Perhaps I didn't make that clear. Actually, previous manifestations of the curriculum were far more detailed and inclusive. We intentionally scaled back the presentation of many religions and the depth of others in order to pay closer attention to personal beliefs and compare the tenets of the religions these kids will most likely come in contact with through community involvement to UU.

Giving extra attention to Judaism is a reflection of our community. We live in a predominately Jewish community and these kids attend school with mostly Jewish peers. We would be remiss in not addressing the tenets of Judaism (unless we were trying to indoctrinate them into a specific belief system, which we are not). Many of them come from Jewish-Christian interfaith families.

The point of this thread was to get feedback in order to prevent giving 'facts' to kids that didn't represent the basic belief of the religion being discussed. Of course there are differences within the religions as well as across the religions. There are also many traditions not covered. It's intentional to focus on the few religions mentioned here. That doesn't mean that the curriculum is perfect or that it can't be changed. I hear you in that if we're going to call it World Religions we need to do better service to those faiths not covered in this discussion. That's a change that's in the works. What was a full year spent on studying world religions and a full year on personal reflection has recently been restructured to two years of personal reflection which includes discussion of 'other religions'. Regardless of the overall focus, I want the information I give to the kids on someone else's practices and beliefs to be accurate. I truly appreciate all the feedback given in this thread.

0 Replies

JPB, I personally believe you are doing a good job in presenting the different religions to children. I think too much detail and too many different religions will only confuse most children. If any child is interested in seeking more detailed information, you can always provide resources in written form.

Keep up the good work; I wish somebody took the time to teach us about the many different religions when I was a child.

And thanks again for taking us to the Bahai Temple during our last visit.

0 Replies

These are seventh graders in a Sunday school class.

Exclamation

0 Replies

It is only about you, JPB, to the extent that you, apperently, are compfortable with a Judeo-Christian bias. You can temporize to your heart's content--you are not teaching comparative religion, you are creating a false impression of the significance of christianity and judaism.

0 Replies

setanta- the roman catholic church didn't lose its monopoly in a day.

give him credit for trying, eh? we'll get there.

0 Replies

No, it took centuries of concerted depravity and theft for the Popes to loose their death grip on Europe--good point. (Pssst . . . JPB is not a him.)

0 Replies

Life's big questions - a religious comparison

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know