What BOOK are you reading right now?

NImh wrote:

When I was in high school ('83-'90), I had to read, every year: 10 books in Dutch; 5 books in French; 5 books in German; and - dunno exactly anymore - 6-7 or so in English.. makes 26-27 in total, per year.

I am certain that Nimh's reading in English was confined to left wing Liberal tomes. It is clear that, as a European, he knows literally NOTHING about the USA. He thinks he does but his posts show that he has learned very little about the USA. He is like many Europeans. Very envious of the USA and strives to attack it as often as he can. He will not, however, show the proper gratitude to a country which picked the Netherlands out of their filthy canals after World War II and pumped the country full of Marshall Plan funds.

It is said that good deeds often bring resentment from those who are the recepients. Mr. Nimh's posts show that very clearly.

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BernardR:

It seems to me, anyone who compares Shakespeare and Salinger has some absurd notions about literature.

Salinger was not even trying to write 1) LYRICAL 2) DRAMA. Nor did he write in Elizabethan English, because he wrote (in his peak) in New York City during the 1940s.

Someone so high falutin about "literature" (I imagine this word pronounced in an affected British accent), surely understands its evolution, that each new generation of writers answers to the preceding era and attempts (or so we perceive through the looking glass of literary criticism) to subvert the traditions of that era.

In short, contemporary authors are way beyond trying to replicate or compete with Shakespeare--if they do, it's with a postmodern slant.

Do you really think some high school English teacher somewhere, right now, is at his desk, shaking his head, thinking to himself, "Hmm, I have one more unit to plan for next semester. Let me see, either Shakespeare or Salinger. Which one shall I choose? I mean they're both so alike, and it would make no sense to treat each period of literature as a distinct, historic event. I know, I'll flip a coin!"

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Brian Lamb's BOOKNOTES-LIFE STORIES, "Notable biographers on the people who shaped America", 435 pp.

Each piece is less than ten pages. As an old American history teacher, I enjoy reading the personal comments of the
biographers. Not being a hard core reader, it was refreshing to come across something that was stimulating but which didn't require a long term comittment. It cost me $1.07 at Amazon.com...perfect condition. <smile>

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BernardR wrote:

NImh wrote:

When I was in high school ('83-'90), I had to read, every year: 10 books in Dutch; 5 books in French; 5 books in German; and - dunno exactly anymore - 6-7 or so in English.. makes 26-27 in total, per year.

I am certain that Nimh's reading in English was confined to left wing Liberal tomes. It is clear that, as a European, he knows literally NOTHING about the USA. He thinks he does but his posts show that he has learned very little about the USA. He is like many Europeans. Very envious of the USA and strives to attack it as often as he can. He will not, however, show the proper gratitude to a country which picked the Netherlands out of their filthy canals after World War II and pumped the country full of Marshall Plan funds.

It is said that good deeds often bring resentment from those who are the recepients. Mr. Nimh's posts show that very clearly.

This is a rude post and someone who claims to be versed in literature ought to be do better than this.

I think that Bernie took an adult education course -- or attended a lecture called, "The Great Books" and is victimizing us with it.

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Mapleleaf wrote:

Brian Lamb's BOOKNOTES-LIFE STORIES, "Notable biographers on the people who shaped America", 435 pp.

Each piece is less than ten pages. As an old American history teacher, I enjoy reading the personal comments of the
biographers. Not being a hard core reader, it was refreshing to come across something that was stimulating but which didn't require a long term comittment. It cost me $1.07 at Amazon.com...perfect condition. <smile>

That sounds like a wonderful book and valuable for someone still in the classroom.

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Gargamel wrote:

Someone so high falutin about "literature" (I imagine this word pronounced in an affected British accent), surely understands its evolution, that each new generation of writers answers to the preceding era and attempts (or so we perceive through the looking glass of literary criticism) to subvert the traditions of that era.

I don't believe your viewpoint would be accepted by most critics, Mr. Gargamel.

Bloom would say that contemporary writes must compete with writers like Shakespeare and Dante. Bloom asserts that there can be no strong canonical writing without the process of literary influence. Bloom believes that Originality becomes peculiarly difficult in everything that matters most: repesentation of human beings, the role of memory, in cognition, in the range of metaphor suggesting the new possiblities in language.

Bloom states that these are Shakespeare's particular escellences and no one has ever matched him as psychologist, thinker or rhetorician.

Now, if Bloom is correct, the mythical teacher you talk about, Mr. Gargamel, may indeed select Salinger before Shakespeare but IT WOULD NOT BE BECAUSE SALINGER IS IN ANY WAY, ANY WAY SUPERIOR TO SHAKESPEARE>

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One novel and 13 short stories, all written in the period 1948-59 - I'm sure, all pupils would prefer Salinger to Shakespeare.

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Salinger blows

What BOOK are you reading right now? Knut Hamson-Hunger

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I may not have sufficient time to write all I want here.

Osso-- Defining literature is slippery. I would begin with beautiful writing. I would then add a great theme or lesson. Gargamel has pointed that much of literature is about the male-female relationship. To a certain extant, that is true. However, there is so much more and one book may have several themes and an author may use books as a series to examine various beliefs without making any one belief (or issue) the centerpiece of a novel.

As to standing the test of time, well, let's face it, just as there are pieces of folk and rock music that are superior to some -- note, that I wrote some -- pieces of classical music, there are novels being written today that will surpass some of the long esteemed masterpieces. SOme of those so-called classics are rather empty when one reads them.

I have to shake my head at our resident disruptor, bernie/massa, who once again misunderstood my post. That there are books for various times in life does not mean that teachers therefore teach sentimental crap to kids. On the contrary.

Actually, when I began graduate school in English in Detroit in 1969, it was the left wing students who believed in the classic notion of the liberal arts as ennoblers of mankind -- not the apolitical centrists (the bulk of the student body) or the right wingers, who were the ones who tended toward drek.

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Walter -- I know I have already posted this somewhere but when my son took drama as a senior in high school, his teacher, the chairman of the department and a nationally recognized Shakespeare scholar, told the parents at open house that when she designed the course, she thought she would present Billy S for one quarter and contemporary drama for the other three. The reverse turned out to be true as the kids were more interested in Shakespeare.

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The Inscrutable Americans by Anurag Mathur

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BernardR wrote:

Gargamel wrote:

Someone so high falutin about "literature" (I imagine this word pronounced in an affected British accent), surely understands its evolution, that each new generation of writers answers to the preceding era and attempts (or so we perceive through the looking glass of literary criticism) to subvert the traditions of that era.

I don't believe your viewpoint would be accepted by most critics, Mr. Gargamel.

Bloom would say that contemporary writes must compete with writers like Shakespeare and Dante. Bloom asserts that there can be no strong canonical writing without the process of literary influence. Bloom believes that Originality becomes peculiarly difficult in everything that matters most: repesentation of human beings, the role of memory, in cognition, in the range of metaphor suggesting the new possiblities in language.

Bloom states that these are Shakespeare's particular escellences and no one has ever matched him as psychologist, thinker or rhetorician.

Now, if Bloom is correct, the mythical teacher you talk about, Mr. Gargamel, may indeed select Salinger before Shakespeare but IT WOULD NOT BE BECAUSE SALINGER IS IN ANY WAY, ANY WAY SUPERIOR TO SHAKESPEARE>

Again I ask, why do you insist on comparing Salinger and Shakespeare? It seems completely arbitrary. And why shouldn't people be encouraged to read both?

Few have matched Salinger's first person psychological rendering of a
"madman," though many have tried. And unfortunately Shakespeare didn't do this either; he didn't write about a seventeen year old boy in New York City, maddened by the superficiality of his class (class as in economic niche). And please don't try to compare Hamlet and Holden Caulfield. What I'm saying is, Salinger offers things Shakespeare does not. I'm not saying one is BETTER than the other (why do you keep bringing this up?), because that's about as logical as comparing a chandelier to a fire hydrant.

I would argue, however, that Catcher in the Rye meets every one of Bloom's criteria.

Now if you're saying that every contemporary author "must" attempt to acheive the SUBLIME, that's another story. Shakespeare, Dante, Joyce are often considered sublime authors because their writing seems to have some kind of transcendental quality, for many readers. But that's just one aesthetic goal. Plainoldme mentioned beauty--we might say that beauty is whatever inspires love for the beautiful object--and this is another goal. Some artists are concerned with neither of these. Some want to disgust their audience, for example.

This is just one reason why so many people believe Bloom has his head up is ass.

I ask you this, though: why MUST writers consciously compete with Shakespeare? Why do you believe people ought to read Dante? You use "should" and "must" in many of your posts. Why? For example, do you believe reading these authors improves moral character, or something like that? I'm curious.

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Amigo wrote:

Salinger blows

What criteria do you judge Salinger by?

Hunger is on my reading list, too.

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Gargamel -- I enjoyed your piece on Salinger. It's very good and cuts to the chase. BTW, as a footnote, my sons hated Catcher in the Rye.

My older son is rather widely read. He'll pick up almost anything and, if it is good, he will keep the book. If it isn't, he'll throw it out.

Back to the original purpose of this thread.

Because I have been in Concord with the Alcotts (and their friends, Hawthorne, Emerson and Thoreau) this week, I started reading some of the lesser known works by Louisa May Alcott. Her Hospital Sketches is excellent and should be part -- at least the chapter entitled, "A Night" -- of a serious American Lit curriculum.

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Gargamel wrote:

Amigo wrote:
Salinger blows

What criteria do you judge Salinger by?

Hunger is on my reading list, too.

I just didn't see it. It's just my opinion. I also think Ishtar is a great movie and Cassius Marcellus Coolidge is fine art. I'm not trying to be a troll i'm joking with my opinion.

http://gaming.unlv.edu/gallery/a_friend_in_need.htm

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A poet from Berry College (Rome, GA) who is in our UU congregation just won first for her book of poetry. I'm beginning to get the itch to give it a try. Maybe I can find such a book in Amazon.com.. I like them $1.07 hardback books; especially, if I can read them a few pages at a time.

Can anyone suggest a collection that might speak to a beginner reader...though aging student?

Maple

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LOTR .... Reading it now Embarrassed

after watching the film.

Also novelThe Ice Candy Man by Bapsi Sidhwa. Those intersted can even watch the film based on the novel , 1947-Earth by Deepa Mehta.

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As of right now, I am struggling through a rather bad book, simply because I can not walk away from a story unfinished.

The Face , by Coontz? I think?

ug. Mad

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Hi! I'm reading The Prophet by Khalil Gibran...anyone heard of it? It's quite an idealistic book and has nothing to do with actual religions...there's a part where the author describes the meaning of a house...I just love what he wrote about it.

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Anyone heard of it? Some of us got married by it..

Well, I seem to remember asking both that the Prophet or the word obey NOT be mentioned.

So I was startled mid ceremony with Gibran stuff. (We were paying for this joke to ourselves?) Yes, I liked Gibran once, but some years before and was truly tired of it by the time I married. We both didn't want to hear it, he maybe even more than me, and there it was. Luckily they didn't throw in obey on either of us or we would have been out the door.

As I say this, I know a lot of people revere his writing, as I used to, until I just wanted to hurl. Not to knock anyone who appreciates him, since I remember feeling that.

Whether Gibran's precepts matter or not is not the point. Sentimental blather, once it becomes that on repetition, is truly obnoxious when peddled.

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