What BOOK are you reading right now?

plainoldme wrote:

When I was a graduate student in English and American lit -- June, 1969 through September, 1975 -- no one was reading F. Scott Fitzgerald. He was ignored as a footnote to American writing.

I went with an acting student to see the Robert Redford Gatsby movie and my date was so disgusted with it that he wanted us to leave the theatre. I hadn't read the book at the time, so I had no way to judge how accurate it was.

A year or two later, I saw Robert DeNiro in a filmed version of THe Last Tycoon. I thought it and DeNiro were both brilliant. So, I maintained an open mind about Fitzgerald.

I read it while subbing for an English teacher during academic 2004-05. I thought, "Is that all there is? No wonder no one was reading Fitzgerald in the 60s and 70s." Honestly, I thought it was like People magazine. A man with brains and ambition, no, more than ambition, ruthless single-mindedness who wanted a woman. But, because she was beautiful and of the right social class, not because she had anything of merit about her.

Should anyone want to reshoot the movie, Paris Hilton could be the female lead and lots of people would think it was just her television show.

That's what I mean by People Magazine. Crying over beautiful shirts why we watch through the window.

Your definition of Gatsby, then, would be fairly accurate for the entire Victorian period, and most of English literature, right? Remember the first line of Pride and Prejudice: "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife." Or something along those lines. I guess that could be the first sentence of Gatsby, too.

But yeah, there's a soap opera quality to Gatsby. Sentimentality aside, I quite like it, mostly for the writing. The form specifically. In my mind Gatsby's arc stands as a prototype for any linear American narrative, seamless as a sunset and with little excess.

0 Replies

Gargamel- Your take on Fitzgerald is right on the money. As a matter of fact the three main novelists of the twentieth century who have influenced dozens of other lesser novelists have been Hemingway, Fitzgerald and Faulkner. Here and there, lesser novelists appear but I am sure that you will agree that although thousands of novels are published each year, only a few withstand the test of time because they speak genuinely to us and also cast thier influence on other writers.

Some people do not seem to understand that in a life that is limited by the many chores and business we must do each day, the precious time left must, if one has any sense at all, be devoted to reading the best that there is.

Anyone who does not agree, and, of course, there are millions who do not and they have a perfect right to do so, is doomed to eating McDonald's fare most of their lives instead of dining in five star restaurants.

But some people have such degraded tastes that they do not know the difference.

0 Replies

I was raised with canons of different sorts.

By virtue of a strange and wonderful childhood, I was well educated and isolated with low resources but had books, books, and more books -- those situations moving slightly in the breeze. I have read with both hunger and discernment, those two aspects in an interesting balance ever since. By now I've read twenty or thirty thousand books, much of them in a sort of wash. Some of the books people revere were just part of the wash for me... Updike, Roth, Fitzgerald.
Many others were more than a wash, certainly not just books to pass the night. And some have been treasures, more and more treasures.
My main reaction to this thread is that anyone can begin to speak of some sort of canon. That only means to me that they have cinched themselves in some sort of rope.

0 Replies

You may be right, ossobuco. On the other hand, you may not be.

What would you say to a young lady who was enthusiastic about her reading of Danielle Steel novels? You might tell her that you were happy she was spending time reading novels. If you were a bit more intrusive, you might even recommend some literature that you think would be more aesthetically pleasing for her.

When I go to a movie, not very often now a days, I try to read the critics' opinions about the new movie. I do not think I have cinched myself in any kind of a rope when I go to my DVD shelf and view "Treasure of the Sierra Madre" for the seventh or eighth time or Olivier's sublime "Hamlet" again.

Perhaps there is no heirarchy in Literature. Perhaps reading Stephen King is as aesthetically pleasureful as reading Shakespeare. But I do not think those "perhapses" would hold up under scrutiny.

Certainly anyone can read what they wish. But some of us( not all of us, of course) need to be tutored by experts who know a great deal about literature so we can dispense with the frustrating and most time consuming task of finding the best.

Some literarature is better than the rest, you know!!!

0 Replies

BernardR wrote:

Certainly anyone can read what they wish. But some of us( not all of us, of course) need to be tutored by experts who know a great deal about literature so we can dispense with the frustrating and most time consuming task of finding the best.

Some literarature is better than the rest, you know!!!

We are all so happy that we've got such a well reputated tutor like you are as a member here!

Some literarature is better than the rest, you know!!! - that's indeed the best I've ever heard re this topic.

0 Replies

Mr.Walter Hinteler- Sir- I am not a well "reputated" tutor. There is no such thing as a well "reputated" tutor.

0 Replies

Sorry, please excuse my fault.

Of course, I wnated to say that you are a well reputabled tutoring expert.

But not in bird names ... coocoo Laughing

0 Replies

Mr. Walter Hinteler- May I respectfully request that you look up the word "reputabled" as you are using it? I think you may find that you are in error!

0 Replies

BernardR wrote:

Mr. Walter Hinteler- May I respectfully request that you look up the word "reputabled" as you are using it? I think you may find that you are in error!

Considering the fact that English is Walter's second language, I think he can be forgiven the occasional slip, don't you???

0 Replies

BernardR wrote:

Mr. Walter Hinteler- May I respectfully request that you look up the word "reputabled" as you are using it? I think you may find that you are in error!

You looked up coocoo, did you? Laughing

0 Replies

Yes, I did after you indicated to me that it was misspelled. Now, I indicate to you that your use of the word "reputabled" is incorrect. You may, of course, do as you please!

0 Replies

Thanks for that offer.

0 Replies

My dad can beat up all of your dads.

So there.

0 Replies

plainoldme wrote:

daniellejean -- I graduated from high school in 1965 and, yes, we were required to read more than kids are today. We had to read and report on a book each month of the academic year, ten in total, in addition to required reading for English class. [..]

We also had to read and report on six books during the summer. The reports were due by the end of the first week of school. Kids today read one or two books -- sometimes three for honors and AP courses.

Dayum.

When I was in high school ('83-'90), I had to read, every year: 10 books in Dutch; 5 books in French; 5 books in German; and - dunno exactly anymore - 6-7 or so in English.. makes 26-27 in total, per year.

The choice, on the other hand, was free - as long as it was considered literature, you could choose it (as long as you didnt, like, read 5 books from one writer or something).

Course, some people dropped French and/or German after 4th grade; I took my finals in both (but dropped maths, physics etc).

Gotta add that nowadays the curriculum is very different, I dont know exactly. I think they split off literature from the langauge classes and created a separate subject world literature, or something (plus cutting down on the reading list period). Bad change, IMO - makes the languages less fun and makes it easy to drop literature altogether. Costs are larger than the benefit (the opportunity to now also read Spanish, Italian, Russian writers, in translation).

0 Replies

Gargamel -- Gatsby is not a Victorian era book, as you seem to imply in your post. It was written during and set in the 1920s. Actually, I admire Fitzgerald's style: I hate the plot. Totally vapid.

nimh -- European high schools are in advance of American schools, in large part because too many Americans strongly object to the teaching of foreign languages.

ossobucco -- I object to the so-called Canon for many reasons. First of all, I am widely considered well read and well versed in literature. But, I honestly feel that the reader has to decide for himself what is worth reading.

After majoring in political science, I earned a master's degree in English because I was unhappy with most books that were available to anyone doing a casual sweep through the library or bookstore. I will not finish a book that I consider unsatisfactory.

Second, when one speaks to living writers and asks for their sources of style, the one writer on everyone's list is Joseph Conrad. From the first recepient of our National Book Award (Nelson Algren) to people still writing today, the first name on that list is Conrad's.

Third, too many of those so-called lists are arbitrary. I've written many times about the Five Foot Shelf that includes Richard Henry Dana's Two Years Before the MAst, which many college professors and esteemed writers consider dreadful.

Fourth, some proponents of Canonization seem to say that no new books will ever be worth reading.

Fifth, I believe that there are books suitable for different times and circumstances in life. I also know that there are many books that require a great deal of historic and other knowledge on the part of the reader to appreciate. That means, that there are books that just can not be made relevant to some folks. It also means that there are some books that are necessary to read more than once during a life time. When I could finally check books out of the adult room at my home town library, the first three books I read were Ben-Hur, The Forsyte Saga and Main Street. I would never read the first again. I now feel the second is brilliant and, at 14, I hated it. When I tried to re-read the last book three or four years ago, it bored me to tears.

0 Replies

Of course it's not a Victorian era novel (my post implies this?). But, as you know, Victorian era novels, well, more accurately the Romantic novels that preceded them, often involve an imminent marriage, a tryst between lovers, class disputes, etc. This seemed in sync with your summary of Gatsby.

I was just raising the question: since 50% (exaggeration) of English and American novels written in the past two, three centuries involve such a plot, and therefore, as you seem to imply, resemble People magazine, is this a worthy standard for critique?

That's alls I'm sayin'.

0 Replies

Plain Ol Me wrote:

Fifth, I believe that there are books suitable for different times and circumstances in life. I also know that there are many books that require a great deal of historic and other knowledge on the part of the reader to appreciate. That means, that there are books that just can not be made relevant to some folks. It also means that there are some books that are necessary to read more than once during a life time. When I could finally check books out of the adult room at my home town library, the first three books I read were Ben-Hur, The Forsyte Saga and Main Street. I would never read the first again. I now feel the second is brilliant and, at 14, I hated it. When I tried to re-read the last book three or four years ago, it bored me to tears.

*********************************************************

Any teacher that does not try to get her students( usually females) to stop reading garbage like Steele and try to get them to read better literature should not be teaching.

Many people can read great literature even when they are in High School.
My older brother read Dante in the original when a High School Senior and still says it was one of the highlights of his life.

Of course, there are some books that cannot be made relevant to some folks. It has been said that 10% of the population purchases 90% of the books sold. However, we cannot have the kind of society we wish to maintain if we do not present Shakespeare instead of Salinger'; The Illiad instead of Harry Potter and Tolstoy instead of Tolkien to our students.

The dumbing down of our students and our schools is proceeding rapidly.

The villans are Political Correctness, Extreme Feminism, and Artistic Relativism.

0 Replies

I didn't realize Shakespeare and Salinger were mutually exclusive. Or were they paired for the sake of alliteration?

0 Replies

I read bits of Dante in the original in high school; that is, I took a college class in Italian one late afternoon a week, and as it turned out that I was the only student, I benefitted from some intense instruction and was given some interesting segments of literature to translate. I consider that I was lucky to have signed up for that class.

The reading requirements during Nimh's high school years sound excellent to me. I like that there was choice involved in the selection, given that the choices were all considered literature.

As to "what book are you reading now?", it's The Memory of Running by Ron McLarty, in paperback put out by Penguin.

I don't know if you folks would count it as literature; I do. It will turn out to be the most memorable book for me in the recent batch I listed some posts ago.

So, what do you English scholars consider the definition of literature?

0 Replies

I will try to make this as clear as possible. In doing so, I may miss some nuances which are necessary but since some do not understand the basic ideas, I will strip them down to the essence.

l. Life is short

2. Life is filled with many obligations--to oneself and to others.

3. Time is limited

Of course, anyone can read anything they desire. There is no proscription on that. The Index of the Catholic Church which listed banned books disappeared long ago.

However, it is my strong belief that a person should try as hard as they can to read what will give them the highest esthetic experiences and what will help them become as much of a Homo Universalis as possible.

This will not be accomplished by reading garbage!!!

Doctors will tell you that there are certain steps one can take to maximize thier health...Low Blood Pressure...Appropriate Body Mass Size....Appropriate Diet.

Now anyone can live on McDonald's menu if they wish to do so, but their bodies will soon feel the strain.

People can read Salinger. I have read Salinger. But Shakespeare is fifty times better for my mind and soul than Salinger.

Anyone that does not know that knows NOTHING about Literature!!!

0 Replies

What BOOK are you reading right now?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know