roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 06:16 pm
A kill, just in case anyone really doesn't know, is a creek or stream.
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 06:20 pm
Pinch away, Phoenix. She's an instigator, that one is.

My problem with this thread (and when don't I have a problem? Life should be easy?) is that it's hard for me to stop. I'm editing a business book. They shouldn't find an "oy" right in the middle somewhere.

Maybe I'll do an "oy" search before I turn in the project. Couldn't hoit.
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 07:58 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
bm. Lots of great material here. Linwood Street, about a block from our home in Detroit, was the boundary between Irish and Jewish neighborhoods. Brings it all back.


georgele, Where are my manners? Come in. Setz ich avec. Can I get you a nice glass of tea? Maybe a piece of honey cake. Just a little nosh.

I'm glad this brings back memories for you. For me too. If you haven't already done so, I suggest you take a look at the first few pages of this thread. They explain alot. But who am I to tell you what to do?
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 08:00 pm
roger wrote:
A kill, just in case anyone really doesn't know, is a creek or stream.


Roger, I know that Catskill is in fact a Dutch term. Didn't know what the kill meant. Thanks for the enlighenment.

So you shouldn't feel left out, I can get you a nosh too.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 08:32 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Oy, you're such a nice girl. Come here mammeleh, and let me pinch your cheeks! Very Happy


Shocked

NO!!!!!

EEEEK!
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 10:03 pm
Roberta wrote:
georgele, Where are my manners? Come in. Setz ich avec. Can I get you a nice glass of tea? Maybe a piece of honey cake. Just a little nosh.

I'm glad this brings back memories for you. For me too. If you haven't already done so, I suggest you take a look at the first few pages of this thread. They explain alot. But who am I to tell you what to do?


I started on page one and found it hard to stop - that's what elicited my comment. Some priceless material there!

I grew up on the Irish Catholic side of Linwood, but, in fact, as young boys, we all lived in both worlds. Once, when the CYO recreation center was closed for a month, some friends induced me to go with them to the JCC, under the pseudonym of Alan Weiss, for Hebrew day school (boys aged 11 or 12), after which we could swim or play basketball. (They had been my frequent mates at the CYO) It lasted until my mother found the mezuzza (sp?) which I swapped for the scapular around my neck as we went in each day. Not a moment too soon as the JCC had by then caught up with the Weiss impostor. The experience was hardly novel for a young Catholic boy - memorizing things in an incomprehensible language wasn't new (except for the guttural sounds), and the morality stories were the same.

I had the impression then that the manners and expressions you have so well described here are more characteristic of Jews from Russia or Poland than those from Germany, Italy or France. True?

Yiddish was still a living language then - papers sold, conversations heard on the streets, and many words common to all. I liked the words because they so often sounded like what they meant - particularly the many references to human foibles, which the culture and the language seemed to so lovingly catalogue and differentiate.

A few years and puberty later I learned that the Jewish Boys, restrained from sowing wild oats with the nice JAPs, considered shicksas fair game. I rejoiced in the discovery that the JAPs had the same idea.

An education it was!
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 12:47 am
georgeob1 wrote:

I started on page one and found it hard to stop - that's what elicited my comment. Some priceless material there!

I grew up on the Irish Catholic side of Linwood, but, in fact, as young boys, we all lived in both worlds. Once, when the CYO recreation center was closed for a month, some friends induced me to go with them to the JCC, under the pseudonym of Alan Weiss, for Hebrew day school (boys aged 11 or 12), after which we could swim or play basketball. (They had been my frequent mates at the CYO) It lasted until my mother found the mezuzza (sp?) which I swapped for the scapular around my neck as we went in each day. Not a moment too soon as the JCC had by then caught up with the Weiss impostor. The experience was hardly novel for a young Catholic boy - memorizing things in an incomprehensible language wasn't new (except for the guttural sounds), and the morality stories were the same.

I had the impression then that the manners and expressions you have so well described here are more characteristic of Jews from Russia or Poland than those from Germany, Italy or France. True?

Yiddish was still a living language then - papers sold, conversations heard on the streets, and many words common to all. I liked the words because they so often sounded like what they meant - particularly the many references to human foibles, which the culture and the language seemed to so lovingly catalogue and differentiate.

A few years and puberty later I learned that the Jewish Boys, restrained from sowing wild oats with the nice JAPs, considered shicksas fair game. I rejoiced in the discovery that the JAPs had the same idea.

An education it was!


You asked if the expressions here are more Russian and Polish than German, French, and Italian. I don't see much French and Italian, but there is a great connection to German.

Glad you had the chance to be a nice little Jewish boychik for a while. A mezzuzah, no less.

As for the shiksas and shagatzes, we all got a good enough education. :wink:

Of course, where I grew up, shagatzes were in short supply.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 12:56 am
I suppose <snort> is not yiddish...








So, Robbie, if I was eight in late 1949 at 231st Street, and you are much younger than me, were we both in the Bronx at the same time?

(I understand I didn't suffer then. I had to wait until later.)
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 01:16 am
ossobuco wrote:


So, Robbie, if I was eight in late 1949 at 231st Street, and you are much younger than me, were we both in the Bronx at the same time?

(I understand I didn't suffer then. I had to wait until later.)


Yes, were were in da Bronx simultaneously. I knew you were a kindred spirit. Felt it in my bones.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 05:09 am
georgeob1 wrote:
...I had the impression then that the manners and expressions you have so well described here are more characteristic of Jews from Russia or Poland than those from Germany, Italy or France. True?...!


Kinda (putting on seriousness hat for a moment).

It's the Ashkenazi/Sephardi dichotomy. Sephardim are of Spanish and Portuguese descent, Ashkenazi are from Eastern Europe. Since there's a lot more of Europe than those two areas, I think you end up with folks who were in between. Plus, at least in the 1800s, the Jewish immigrants into the US would tend to be wealthier if they were from Germany.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 06:26 am
There is also a difference between the Sephardic and Ashkanazic pronunciation in Hebrew. I learned the Ashkenazic first, and then the Sephardic, because that was considered more modern and "cool" at the time. I always thought that the Sephardic sounded like Hebrew spoken with a southern accent.

Yiddish actually is a combination of Hebrew and German. That is why Walter usually understands what we are talking about.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 01:15 pm
Thanks to both Roberta and Phoenix. I am aware of the connections between the Yiddish spoken (mostly by the parents & grandparents) of the Jewish people I grew up around and Hebrew & German. The great majority of these peope were self-described as 'Russian Jews', whose grandparents mostly came here in the early decades of the 20th century. There were also fairly large numbers of German and Hungarian Jews, and I suspect, from what you have said, the differences I observed are likely to have arisen from the extra generation or so since their immigration. (This generationasl effect was certainly observable among others in the ethnic stew from which I emerged.).
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 03:51 pm
I'm second generation, and I suspect that at least some of the other posters here are second generation. So we're one step removed from fluency. In my case, one step and a bunch of years of actually hearing Yiddish spoken regularly.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 04:11 pm
One of the fascinating events of the last century was the rebirth of a more or less dead language (Hebrew) and the death of a living one (Yiddish) all by the same (more or less ) people. What will become of the very extensive Yiddish literature? - not to mention the wonderful linguistic and cultural expressions that are the subject of this thread?
0 Replies
 
Dorothy Parker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 04:32 pm
You lot are funny.
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 04:55 pm
Dorothy Parker wrote:
You lot are funny.


Who? Us? We're just schmoozing. Glad you're amused.
0 Replies
 
Dorothy Parker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 04:57 pm
(Dorothy stroking chin trying to think of witty he-bonic style response but unable to)
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 05:16 pm
You don't have enough else on your mind? You gotta worry about coming up with something Hebonic? Relax. Maybe you'd like a glass of seltzer--from the blue bottle with the shpritzer on the top? No? How about some strudel? With a glass of tea.

I've mentioned a glass of tea a few times. My grandparents (and occasionally my parents) would have tea in a glass--one of the yortzite glasses, usually. They'd take a sugar cube, break it, and put part of it between their teeth. Then they'd sip the tea through the cube. I tried this a few times. Messy. It required practice. And sweet.

BTW, my grandmother made strudel to die for.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 06:07 pm
I also recall the set of Yahrtzeit glasses that were used for tea. And for teeth, too. Fortunately, not at the same time.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jan, 2007 02:11 am
georgeob1 wrote:
What will become of the very extensive Yiddish literature? - not to mention the wonderful linguistic and cultural expressions that are the subject of this thread?


There's a lot of academical work done to preserve this (out of the 'real' five chairs in Yiddish Studies, two are in Germany).
0 Replies
 
 

 
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