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Ignorance? Closed-Mindedness?

 
 
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 02:27 pm
I was wondering if anyone else felt as STRONGLY as I do on this subject.
I believe as a society we struggle to grip the concept of an open mind, and many of us fail at doing so.


I was recently having a talk with a friend of mine, and she tried explaining to me, that to be a good philosopher, one HAS to believe in God. Not a god, but God. The all mighty Roman-Catholic God.
As of course that struck me as quite a irrational statement, I've learned to tolerate things like this, and asked her to explain.
She said that if one is an atheist they limit their mind to only thinking inside the "atheist" box. She said that to be a GOOD philosopher you have to be open-minded and accept things.
Do you not shut out the belief of atheism when you clearly state it's wrong?
Is this a double standard that I'm not aware of?

I tried explaining to her Friedrich Nietzsche, who was a wondrous German philosopher, and how he was an atheist. She said not that he was good, but that he was profound, because, clearly, there's a difference.

When I tried explaining to her what I believed her close-minded ways were, she shut me out and deemed me too young, and having a lack of experience in the "real world" to make decisions like this.


Am I over-reacting, or does anyone else agree?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 961 • Replies: 13
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 05:07 pm
babemomlover

IMO a "good philosopher" has to analyse and strive to go beyond "existence" itself, such that questions about "existence of God" become deconstructed in terms of the "functionality" of concepts since concepts alone may be the totality of "reality".

Therefore....
I call myself an atheist because my concept of "myself" has a negative relationship with the concept "God". That negativity comes from evidence for the pernicious nature of the "God" concept in relationship to that of "social harmony" even though at the individual level the "God" concept is a positive integral part of the "self" concept for others.
0 Replies
 
tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2007 07:09 pm
i kind of agree with both of you.

i think ideally, you would address every idea with an open mind. if after you address it, you end up dismissing it as fresco does, i think that's fine. however, i think the option to keep your mind open about a question is your right as an intellectual, not something to be frowned on as some might.

"freethinker" means you have the option to dismiss an idea as he does. i like to think it also means you aren't required to dismiss all ideas that others have deemed illogical.

if freethinker means "unfettered by anything that isn't logical" then perhaps a better term would be "logical thinker." i like being a "freethinker" unashamed to entertain thoughts that others may consider unimportant. if that does make me more artist than philosopher or scientist, i like to think i'm free enough to ponder the world along those lines.
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 12:45 am
Quote:
I was recently having a talk with a friend of mine, and she tried explaining to me, that to be a good philosopher, one HAS to believe in God. Not a god, but God. The all mighty Roman-Catholic God.


Did she really use those exact words, or even words close to it?

Quote:
Do you not shut out the belief of atheism when you clearly state it's wrong?
Is this a double standard that I'm not aware of?

She has certainly applied a double standard

Quote:
When I tried explaining to her what I believed her close-minded ways were, she shut me out and deemed me too young, and having a lack of experience in the "real world" to make decisions like this.

I've often noticed that those accusing others of closemindedness are usually closeminded themselvesÂ….well, I think we are almost all closeminded in relation to certain aspects of our beliefs. Maybe Budha wasn'tÂ…who knows?

Quote:
I was wondering if anyone else felt as STRONGLY as I do on this subject.


A wise man once said that the more force we apply to something, the more force it uses to resist us.
0 Replies
 
babemomlover
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Sep, 2007 10:34 am
vikorr,

Her exact words were, "You have to believe in god to be a good philosopher."
Exactly. I asked her about middle-eastern gods and polytheistic belief systems, and she said "No, you have to believe in God. Not a god."

Quote:

A wise man once said that the more force we apply to something, the more force it uses to resist us.


That is a very "wise" quote. I have to admit that I agree.
Maybe I came off to strongly, because, well, the argument happened minutes before I created the topic, so I might have been a little bit flustered.
However, I do consider open-mindedness a trait that is looked up to, and very rarely do I talk intimately with people who are close-minded.


tinygiraffe, I definitely agree wholeheartedly with your opinion on keeping your mind open.
It's vital to go anywhere in this world. You have to be willing to accept most anything.
By no means has the idea of western-religions completely left my mind, but I do very much dislike it. No matter what, I'll still listen to what Christians have to say, and I will still argue with all that I've got. Sometimes though, people have you beat. Wink



"Your mind is like a parachute; it doesn't work unless it's open."
-Frank Zappa
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Sep, 2007 02:53 pm
babemomlover wrote:


Her exact words were, "You have to believe in god to be a good philosopher."
Exactly. I asked her about middle-eastern gods and polytheistic belief systems, and she said "No, you have to believe in God. Not a god."


She was talking about being 'open minded', yet I struggle to find a more narrow vantage point for a philosopher. And than continues with ad hominems in the form of you not being old or experienced enough. It's quite laughable actually.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 11:30 am
Re: Ignorance? Closed-Mindedness?
babemomlover wrote:
I was wondering if anyone else felt as STRONGLY as I do on this subject.
I believe as a society we struggle to grip the concept of an open mind, and many of us fail at doing so.


I was recently having a talk with a friend of mine, and she tried explaining to me, that to be a good philosopher, one HAS to believe in God. Not a god, but God. The all mighty Roman-Catholic God.
As of course that struck me as quite a irrational statement, I've learned to tolerate things like this, and asked her to explain.
She said that if one is an atheist they limit their mind to only thinking inside the "atheist" box. She said that to be a GOOD philosopher you have to be open-minded and accept things.
Do you not shut out the belief of atheism when you clearly state it's wrong?
Is this a double standard that I'm not aware of?

I tried explaining to her Friedrich Nietzsche, who was a wondrous German philosopher, and how he was an atheist. She said not that he was good, but that he was profound, because, clearly, there's a difference.

When I tried explaining to her what I believed her close-minded ways were, she shut me out and deemed me too young, and having a lack of experience in the "real world" to make decisions like this.


Am I over-reacting, or does anyone else agree?


Albert Einstein, perhaps a decent philosopher - agreed with your friend's assertion in regard to remaining open minded about matters of the universe.
0 Replies
 
Shapeless
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 11:46 am
To the extent that the Appeal to Celebrity argument is valid: Einstein would have disagreed with the friend's assertion that "open-mindedness about the universe" has to take the form of belief in "the all-mighty Roman Catholic God."
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 11:55 am
Shapeless wrote:
To the extent that the Appeal to Celebrity argument is valid: Einstein would have disagreed with the friend's assertion that "open-mindedness about the universe" has to take the form of belief in "the all-mighty Roman Catholic God."


Not inferred or implied.
0 Replies
 
Shapeless
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 12:02 pm
baddog1 wrote:
Not inferred or implied.


If you mean the friend's assertions about the all-mighty Roman Catholic God, it's baldly stated right here:

Quote:
she tried explaining to me, that to be a good philosopher, one HAS to believe in God. Not a god, but God. The all mighty Roman-Catholic God.


...but perhaps you are referring to something else.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 12:15 pm
Shapeless wrote:
baddog1 wrote:
Not inferred or implied.


If you mean the friend's assertions about the all-mighty Roman Catholic God, it's baldly stated right here:

Quote:
she tried explaining to me, that to be a good philosopher, one HAS to believe in God. Not a god, but God. The all mighty Roman-Catholic God.


...but perhaps you are referring to something else.



"...open-mindedness about the universe" has to take the form of belief in "the all-mighty Roman Catholic God."
0 Replies
 
Shapeless
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 12:17 pm
Yup, that's the bit. Babemomlover's friend wants to have it both ways. Einstein did not.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 12:34 pm
Shapeless wrote:
Yup, that's the bit. Babemomlover's friend wants to have it both ways. Einstein did not.


Too bad that Babemomlover's friend went so far to the extreme. The friend was on the right track - but went a bit too far! The friend's position should not discount the assertion that open-mindedness about various religions should be included in the study of philosophy.
0 Replies
 
tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2007 09:36 am
there are two problems with faith in fundamentalism. one is that you can be too open-minded about being too close-minded.

the other problem is that fundamentalists don't realize or admit that the second part cancels out the first part. that seems to be the problem her friend has. it has nothing to do with being "open-minded" at all.
0 Replies
 
 

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