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Oh, oh, manifest destiny repeated in the Arctic

 
 
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 10:44 am
MOSCOW, Russia
Reuters
8/2/07

Russian explorers dived deep below the North Pole in a submersible on Thursday and planted a national flag on the seabed to stake a symbolic claim to the energy riches of the Arctic.

The Akademik Fedorov research ship carried about 100 scientists to the region.

A mechanical arm dropped a specially made rust-proof titanium flag onto the Arctic seabed at a depth of 4,261 meters (13,980 ft), Itar-Tass news agency quoted expedition officials as saying.

"It was so lovely down there," Itar-Tass news agency quoted expedition leader Artur Chilingarov as saying as he emerged from one of two submersibles that made the dive. "If a hundred or a thousand years from now someone goes down to where we were, they will see the Russian flag," said Chilingarov, 67, also a top pro-Kremlin member of parliament.

Russia wants to extend right up to the North Pole the territory it controls in the Arctic, believed to hold vast reserves of untapped oil and natural gas.

But Canada mocked Russia's ambitions and said the expedition was nothing more than a show.

"This isn't the 15th century. You can't go around the world and just plant flags and say 'We're claiming this territory'," Canadian Foreign Minister Peter MacKay told CTV television.

Under international law, the five states with territory inside the Arctic Circle -- Canada, Norway, Russia, the United States and Denmark via its control of Greenland -- have a 320 km (200 mile) economic zone around the north of their coastline.

Russia is claiming a larger slice extending as far as the pole because, Moscow says, the Arctic seabed and Siberia are linked by one continental shelf.

"Then Russia can give foundation to its claim to more than a million square kilometers of the oceanic shelf," said a newsreader for Russia's state news channel Vesti-24.

"It was a soft landing," Tass quoted expedition leader Artur Chilingarov as saying from on board one of the submersibles.

The rest of the expedition team, floating on a support vessel between the giant ice sheets of the Arctic, broke into applause when news came through the mission had been completed.

"There is yellowish gravel down here. No creatures of the deep are visible," said Chilingarov, 67, a veteran Arctic explorer and parliament deputy for the pro-Kremlin party.

Expedition leaders have said their main worry is to resurface at the ice hole where they dived as the mini-submersibles are not strong enough to break through the North Pole's deep ice cap.

One of the aims of the expedition is to allow oceanographers to study the seabed and establish that Russia and the North Pole are part of the same shelf.

"The aim of this expedition is not to stake Russia's claim but to show that our shelf reaches to the North Pole," Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told reporters in Manila, where he is attending a regional security conference.

The Mir-1 submersible reached the seabed at 1208 Moscow time (0808 GMT).

A second Russian submersible, manned by Swedish businessman Frederik Paulsen and Australian adventurer Mike McDowell, reached the seabed 27 minutes later. It reached a depth of 4,302 meters.

Soviet and U.S. nuclear submarines have often traveled under the polar icecap, but no one had reached the seabed under the Pole, where depths exceed 4,000 meters (13,100 feet). E-mail to a friend
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 967 • Replies: 14
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 10:55 am
The Russian claim is based on seabed topography, not alleged predestination:

http://www.geotimes.org/aug07/WebExtra080107_pic.jpg

http://www.geotimes.org/aug07/article.html?id=WebExtra080107.html
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 11:01 am
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/bathymetry/arctic/Images/version1256.jpg

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/ver1legend.gif


The NOAA bathymetric map differs from recent Russian ones. If anyone here knows what the Russian map is worth, it's George OB - maybe wait in hopes he checks it out....
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 11:03 am
BBB
The U.S. and Canada et al are challenging Russia's claim. The real estate war begins over oil once again.

BBB
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 11:05 am
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
The Bush Administration is challenging Russia's claim. The real estate war begins.

BBB


So does Canada and all other countries, not just the "Bush administration".

Here a link to the NOAA bathymetric maps, on the off chance some actual facts are of interest to you:

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/bathymetry/arctic/currentmap.html
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 11:14 am
....besides, the Russians agreed in the past on the definition of "High Seas" in the Arctic:

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/bathymetry/arctic/images/ibcao7.gif


On a personal note - if I'd known all the deep blue area might ever become Russian, btw, I would have picked another online name Smile
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 11:43 am
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
The U.S. and Canada et al are challenging Russia's claim. The real estate war begins over oil once again.

BBB


That post has been heavily edited since I clicked to "quote" it several minutes ago; the original post was what I did in fact quote previously.

I wasn't aware that A2K software permits users to edit their posts after they've been replied to - that's certainly not what the automated comments state on the site. Thanks for this inadvertent datum.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 11:55 am
Between your post and BB's are two minutes = BBB easily can havechanged it before your response came up.

Such happens quite often .... since a couple of years now.
0 Replies
 
happycat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 11:58 am
Per Jon Stewart on the Daily Show - now the Russians will control Christmas! Shocked
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 11:59 am
True, Walter, but I did look at the thread after I posted the map with the flags; there had been no changes at the time.

However there are delays in posts entering by the servers here, so both possibilities can exist in parallel.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 12:00 pm
The Russians haven't ratified 1990 pact with the United States over the exact division of the Bering Sea, the questions about Hans Island aren't really solved, ...
(I'm not sure, if the USA and Canada have settled their dispute about the Northwest Passage.)

It's all about oil.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 12:00 pm
happy cat
happycat wrote:
Per Jon Stewart on the Daily Show - now the Russians will control Christmas! Shocked


You and Stewart are so baaad!

BBB Laughing
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2007 12:04 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The Russians haven't ratified 1990 pact with the United States over the exact division of the Bering Sea, the questions about Hans Island aren't really solved, ...
(I'm not sure, if the USA and Canada have settled their dispute about the Northwest Passage.)

It's all about oil.


On the Canadians I can tell you no, that dispute over what constitutes Canadian territorial waters is as yet unsettled.

On the definition of "High Seas" however there was never any question - it's 200 miles for economic exploitation. The Russian claim concerns their new calculations for the underwater ridge - is it part of their continental shelf?

I, for one, don't know - maybe George does, as I said; he's criss-crossed those waters often enough Smile
0 Replies
 
mushypancakes
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 05:00 am
Oh, it makes me so sick to the stomach. Not any particular country or fight, which seems endless, but the horror of it to me makes it difficult to even read of such things.

Rapists. So crude.
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 08:14 am
LOL who cares if russia takes the north pole, this is how government works. I dont see anyone in america complaing about us taking america, so how can you say you care if russia takes the north pole? i mean they arent even commiting genocide.Wait, does that mean if they commit genocide to get control of the land its A-OK? it must be.

grow up. If we care so much we should challenge russia for it, and may the best man (or government) win.

Seriously, if we never took over land we would never have countries in the first place, this is how **** works. deal with it.

quit whining, hehe.
0 Replies
 
 

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