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Gnosticism and Spiritualism...

 
 
RexRed
 
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 11:19 am
Which is greater?

Are we "able to know" outside of the spirit?

How is perception linked to knowledge? How is knowledge linked to wisdom? Is there wrong and right knowledge?

Are we saved and judged by knowledge or by the spirit?

How does "gnosis" relate to the reality, presence and perspective of the spirit?

Are they opposed?
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IFeelFree
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 11:25 am
It might help if you define your terms. What do you mean by spiritualism? For example, by spiritualism I doubt that you are referring to the late 19th/early 20th century spiritual movement in which the dead are contacted by mediums. Do you mean general spirituality? Do you mean specifically faith-based religion? As for gnosis, I think you mean direct experiential knowledge of the supernatural or divine. No?
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 11:34 am
IFeelFree wrote:
It might help if you define your terms. What do you mean by spiritualism? For example, by spiritualism I doubt that you are referring to the late 19th/early 20th century spiritual movement in which the dead are contacted by mediums. Do you mean general spirituality? Do you mean specifically faith-based religion? As for gnosis, I think you mean direct experiential knowledge of the supernatural or divine. No?


Very good point..

All response is welcome here.

For the sake of this post we will loosely define spiritualism as a gift of equality which is created in all who simply believe in the true God for deliverance.

The premise of spirituality is that "believing" in God does not require rocket science...

Believing leads to faith.

Galatians 3:23
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Comment: Before faith came?

Haven't humans always been able to believe?
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IFeelFree
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 01:28 pm
RexRed wrote:
For the sake of this post we will loosely define spiritualism as a gift of equality which is created in all who simply believe in the true God for deliverance.

The premise of spirituality is that "believing" in God does not require rocket science...

Believing leads to faith.

Galatians 3:23
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Comment: Before faith came?

Haven't humans always been able to believe?

In that case, I believe that gnosis is greater. Direct experiential knowledge of the divine is superior to belief or faith, in my opinion. With faith there is always the possibility of doubt. However, it is more difficult doubt your experience. I suppose if you had a vision or experience of a more exalted state, you could ascribe it to a derangement, or doubt your sanity. However, in the absence of evidence of any mental defect, you must respect your experience.

As for right and wrong knowledge, I would say there is knowledge that is useful and brings happiness or success, and knowledge which is not useful and brings suffering and failure. For example, knowledge of how to raise your children or secure a good job is likely to bring happiness, while knowledge of how to procure and use illegal hard drugs is likely to produce suffering (at least in the long run).

Are we saved and judged by knowledge or by the spirit? We are saved by spirit, but knowledge may help lead us to spirit. We are not judged by spirit because spirit is our innermost being. It is who we are which is love. Love does not judge. Knowledge judges. Knowledge discriminates between what is right and what is wrong. That is judgment.

How does gnosis relate to reality, presence and perspective of spirit? Gnosis is the experiential knowledge of spirit. It is the revelation of spirit.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 04:36 pm
(just reading along--interesting topic)
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 05:34 pm
IFeelFree wrote:
RexRed wrote:
For the sake of this post we will loosely define spiritualism as a gift of equality which is created in all who simply believe in the true God for deliverance.

The premise of spirituality is that "believing" in God does not require rocket science...

Believing leads to faith.

Galatians 3:23
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Comment: Before faith came?

Haven't humans always been able to believe?

In that case, I believe that gnosis is greater. Direct experiential knowledge of the divine is superior to belief or faith, in my opinion. With faith there is always the possibility of doubt. However, it is more difficult doubt your experience. I suppose if you had a vision or experience of a more exalted state, you could ascribe it to a derangement, or doubt your sanity. However, in the absence of evidence of any mental defect, you must respect your experience.

As for right and wrong knowledge, I would say there is knowledge that is useful and brings happiness or success, and knowledge which is not useful and brings suffering and failure. For example, knowledge of how to raise your children or secure a good job is likely to bring happiness, while knowledge of how to procure and use illegal hard drugs is likely to produce suffering (at least in the long run).

Are we saved and judged by knowledge or by the spirit? We are saved by spirit, but knowledge may help lead us to spirit. We are not judged by spirit because spirit is our innermost being. It is who we are which is love. Love does not judge. Knowledge judges. Knowledge discriminates between what is right and what is wrong. That is judgment.

How does gnosis relate to reality, presence and perspective of spirit? Gnosis is the experiential knowledge of spirit. It is the revelation of spirit.


So are you saying that smart people are better than dumb people?
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IFeelFree
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 05:47 pm
RexRed wrote:
So are you saying that smart people are better than dumb people?

I don't see how you got that from what I wrote. Perhaps where I wrote that "direct experiential knowledge of the divine is superior to faith"? What I was saying there is that direct experience of the divine is more instructive or convincing then just faith in the divine. It has nothing to do with intelligence or I.Q. A person of very humble intellect can enjoy spiritual experience.

Did I misunderstand your question?
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 07:52 pm
(additionally reads, passes popcorn to echi)

T
K
O...shhh
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jul, 2007 08:23 am
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Comment: Both requirements of salvation can be gleaned from the gospels...

The lordship for Christ and the raising from the dead are facts that can be understood from the life and death of Christ in eye witness accounts during the gospel period.

1Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Comment: Notice salvation in the last verse precedes gnosis...

The holy spirit precedes gnosis.

So the revelation of God to Paul is the coming of gnosis to those with the spirit born within.
0 Replies
 
IFeelFree
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jul, 2007 01:45 pm
RexRed wrote:
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Comment: Both requirements of salvation can be gleaned from the gospels...

The lordship for Christ and the raising from the dead are facts that can be understood from the life and death of Christ in eye witness accounts during the gospel period.

1Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Comment: Notice salvation in the last verse precedes gnosis...

The holy spirit precedes gnosis.

So the revelation of God to Paul is the coming of gnosis to those with the spirit born within.

What is salvation? It is the transformation of individual consciousness through a process of surrender to inner spirit. When salvation or liberation is attained, then spiritual knowledge or gnosis dawns. Christ, as a spiritual being, is an outward manifestation of spirit. Surrender to Christ, or seeing Christ with reverence and devotion, is a kind of darshan or theophany. Although Christ is not physically present, there is an opening of the heart, a freeing of energy and attention from the ego-based self. When engaged in that sense, surrender to Christ is a spiritual practice that is liberating. It leads to salvation or freedom from the mind-based sense of self to awareness of the indwelling spirit. In the enlightened state, the individual perceives oneness with the inner spirit, the Christ consciousness.
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