What it would mean or not mean about the universe

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Have you read Wittgenststeins comments about "language going on holiday" ?

If not, try this

www.roangelo.net/logwitt/logwitt4.html

Re: What it would mean or not mean about the universe
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What expands is not a point in the universe, but the universe as an whole.
I see no contradiction in the fact that universe may be eternal and expanding itself.
But, if we say that the universe is infinite, then you are right. No expansion is possible. In an infinite universe any point can be considered its center.

I dont see how something infinite - in space - can be created, or have a start. And if something is infinite - in space - it's impossible that it goes out of existence.

If the universe is just all there with no ending part, then does that mean it's in a finite state? No, it is expanding - I am talking about a possibility.

The universe - as it is measured today - is not infinite (I am not sure what you mean by saying the universe is eternal - that usually signifies being outside of time) - it is finite - but boundless.

This is, because the universe is expanding at the speed of light and therefore (because of E=mc2) we cannot ever reach that boundary - and is thus boundless.

That being said let me address your issues one point at a time.

If the universe is eternal (I guess you mean existing for all of time) and it expands you are saying the 'new' bits are new and cannot be called eternal. Imagine an eternal balloon - that I blow up. The balloon is still eternal and expanding. The parts are simply becoming farther apart - and yet still 'eternal'.

If the universe was finite and expanding it cannot 'become' infinite. Infinitutes must spring into being fully formed - there can be no counting one by one until you reach infinity. This was Cantor's distinction of Aleph rather than the sidways eight of infinity. Aleph is absolute infinitude and the sidways eight is a possible infinitude.

If you have an infinite universe you can take away as much as you like - it is still infinite. It is like doing math with infinitudes. If you have an Aleph Zero amount of books and you take away 5,000 - you still have an Aleph Zero amount of books.

If the universe appeared at some given point - time appeared with it - thus no matter how long it lasts it is infinite. It has existed for all of time - unless you think time is an absolute concept that exists outside of our universe - which ofcourse must remain a belief because there is no way of measuring things outside of our universe. (Thus I think what Val has said is flawed - there is a difference between beginning IN time and beginning WITH time. Our universe began with time and thus has been around for all of time. If it began in time - somehow as if God has his own time - then no - the universe is finite)

If you are saying that the universe is without beginning - it goes back an infinite distance - then you are saying it retreats an infinite distance. Thus you are saying already it is infinite.

However, I think mostly your question has confused the different concepts of:

Possible infinitude
Actual infinitude
Infinite
Eternal
Expanding
Growing

I hope this helps - and I think they are valuable questions - but I think they need a lot of parcing apart before we can accurately discuss them.

Jason