Marriage and children kill creativity in men?

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Marriage and children kill creativity in men
ABC Science Online
Friday, 11 July 2003

Getting married and having kids appears to dent creativity in men, a study suggests

Men do their best work in their younger years, but getting married and having children stalls their creativity, according to a New Zealand study of successful scientists.

Dr Satoshi Kanazawa, a psychologist at the University of Canterbury in Christchurch, reports in the August issue of the Journal of Research in Personality that a man's age and unmarried status appear to drive success in his field.

His study was based on the analysis of a biographical database of 280 scientists considered 'great' by their colleagues, noting their age at the time when they did their greatest work. He found the data remarkably concurs with the observation made by Albert Einstein in 1942: "A person who has not made his great contribution to science before the age of 30 will never do so."

"Scientific productivity indeed fades with age," Kanazawa said. "Two-thirds [of all scientists] will have made their most significant contributions before their mid-30s."

But, regardless of age, the great minds who married virtually kissed goodbye to making any further glorious additions to their CV. Within five years of making their nuptial vows, nearly a quarter of married scientists had made their last significant contribution to knowledge.

"Scientists rather quickly desist [from their careers] after their marriage, while unmarried scientists continue to make great scientific contributions later in their lives," said Kanazawa.

The energy of youth and the dampening effect of marriage, he added, are also remarkably similar among geniuses in music, painting and writing - and even among criminals.

Previous studies have documented that delinquents are overwhelmingly male, and usually start out on the road to crime in their teens. But those who marry will subsequently stop committing crime, whereas criminals at the same age who remain unmarried tend to continue their unlawful careers.

Kanazawa suggests "a single psychological mechanism" is responsible for this: the competitive edge among young men to fight for glory and gain the attention of women. That craving drives the all-important male hormone, testosterone.

After a man settles down, the testosterone level falls, as does his creative output, Kanazawa theorises.

with Agençe France-Presse

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my first reaction to this is....in men?????

but yeah, it dampens, from time to time, creativity (in the artistic sense) in either sex, outside of the obvious childbearing, which, dare I mention is a creative act of both sexes.

I think a lot of creativity (aside from the obvious) is ignored. Much of what is considered housewifery is or can be very creative, and much that men do around the house, past the attention to the plumbing, can be creative..

As a landscape architect, I see couples who have one or the other person take charge on these things. Both people have points of view that make sense about how the home area, whatever square footage that encompasses, works.
Sometimes.

Maybe men feel shut out, and that is too bad. Maybe the man is closed off by the wife because she wants control, having probably gotten it for the first time...

or vice versa, maybe the husband has all the say, having finally gotten his say, and trying out how to do this himself, and she is just piping in about bird feeders.

I work with people figuring out what they want all the time, and some people are more interested in being creative themselves than others are. As a designer, the people who just want you to do it for them are easier. But I relate to the people who want to explore. My only immediate warning is...
explore cheaply.

Cutting off this riff, I don't think men are cut off any more than women by adulthood. I know some very creative men.

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So I jumped off on my own thing, creativity re life in general, and skipped over the apparent main idea, which is that young scientists who are married tend to peter out.

Yah, there has always been the Young Turks thing. Part of why people edge away as a young turk walks down the hall.

Funding tends to go to situations where the points for funding are beyond my knowing. Post docs can make their names when allied to these folks.
I was in academia for a time, an author, though a tag on, myself, and I know it is tough to keep going in a key position in a department, or the world. There was a group that we were slightly allied with that had great repute, in xxxx, and I don't know if they are in existence now (I changed fields).

Not an easy life. People come out of graduate studies or med school ready for bear, geared up after years and years of incredible hours, to make some sort of name for themselves, ever so slightly more, often, than they wanted to solve whatever the posed problem was. Not that they weren't interested in the posed problem, but that this and the career become synonymous, which tended to kill the joy.

Well, there you go, death of instinct to creativity.

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Uh, I see I should have read the whole thing.
Back later.

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Taking on a great new responsibility of marriage and family
will dilute anything that someone is occupied with.
Once married, one must be more conservative and responsible, and think
closer to home with fewer adventures, risks, and grand unlimitted schemes.

Seems natural to me. We needed a study to tell us this?

As women pursue bold and grand careers, more and more, the title of this study would naturally change to say "people" rather than "men". I expect women's focus, ambition and energy would be pinched just as much.

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I read a different article on this subject, with a great quote and a slightly different spin:

Quote:

When Satoshi Kanazawa, of the University of Canterbury in New Zealand, studied biographies of prominent, mostly male scientists he discovered that they made their key discovery before their mid 30s, around the same age that criminal behavior peaks.

He believes the male competitive urge to attract females is a driving force for the scientific and criminal achievements, according to New Scientist magazine.

"They do whatever they do in order to get laid," said Kanazawa.

He added that the competitive drive decreases with age and as men'spriority shifts from competing for women to taking care of their offspring.

"Kanazawa also found that marriage dampens the drive in both arenas," the magazine added.

This was forwarded to me (by E.G., after making the rounds amongst scientist types who I think rather fancied being compared to criminals) and so I don't have a link.

This is a subject I've thought about a lot, as E.G. is apparently not only a good in his field but potentially great. I am probably more permissive than most wives in letting him work an obscene number of hours. He works an average of 12 hours/day, and if he stays home for one day of the weekend, all day, that's a big deal. He is traveling off to conferences about once a month. When he IS home, he also is sometimes reading papers (his own drafts, papers he is refereeing, new papers, etc.)

The reasons I allow this are, a) he truly loves his job, b) I do need time to myself (a little less would be OK, though), c) I don't wish to hinder his potential in his field. Additionally, he is extremely helpful when he is home -- reading papers usually happens only if he is home all day -- and does about 60% of the housecleaning, and a lot of sozlet-watching. He doesn't like, laze on the couch watching TV -- he knows that working that much is a privelege he has to earn.

It would be interesting to see some kind of study that correllated hours at work with success in addition to marriage and children. He spends many many hours at work, but has said many times that he would never have gotten so far without me. He is referring to both practical advice I've given him about politics, how to handle certain situations, and also just emotional support. When you give that much to something, it's emotionally draining. It's perpetually finals week for him, ("Must finish this paper! MUST finish it!! Whew, finished. Must finish the next paper! MUST finish it!!...") a perpetual emotional roller coaster.

So while I think that most married men (well, anyone with a LIFE) work less time than their single counterparts, I think that the time may be more productive. I.e. if M (married) and S (single), of equal experience, mental capacity, etc., each worked 80 hours a week, that M would do more with those 80 hours than S. But if M works 40 hours and S works 80 hours, well, of course S has the advantage.

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It seems "Dr Strangelove" -(the film, not the character) - said it all - men should never share their vital essences! LOL!

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I've never seen this in the US amongst scientists. They marry, have kids, a nice wife and home and are very productive at work.

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I was going to give a very creative response, but the wife called. There's some trouble with the children, it seems. Gotta go now.

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LOL Fbaezer!

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Quote:

I think a lot of creativity (aside from the obvious) is ignored. Much of what is considered housewifery is or can be very creative, and much that men do around the house, past the attention to the plumbing, can be creative..

I resent this. I've channeled a great deal of creativity into plumbing. And a lot of subsequent effort into mopping.

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Thanks dlowan.
I told my wife about my answer, and she replied:
"Those scientists are right, your joking creativity is going down the drain".

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It is all a bit like the debate about artistic talent stemming from neurosis, no?

Become happier, and the irritant that promotes the pearl is gone....

Or, one is simply too busy to attend to it...

Well, I laughed, Fbaezer!

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sozobe wrote:

But if M works 40 hours and S works 80 hours, well, of course S has the advantage.

I think a study as you mention would prove this point to be the biggest factor. Once you (male or female) marry and have kids there is both a desire and an obligation to spend time with the family. When you are single, especially unattached single, what else have to you got? A lot of these guys are into science because it fascinates them. It's not "just a job".

Even in case where pure dumb luck lands the answer in your lap - if your lap its there twice as much you are twice as likely to find the answer.

I was a married guy with a kid. You wanna see creative? Watch a guy try to find ways to get out of having to change a dirty diaper! lol

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Hmmm - this piece of work seems to relate it all to a lowering of testosterone-driven trophy behaviour, which is sort of funny, in a way - seeming to view all spectacular male achievement in some sciences as a sort of mouse, or bower, to use for display purposes to potential sexual partners!

One suspects more complex things are at play.

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The more time a man spends in bed, the more creative he is, out of bed.

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Are all the best scientists, researchers and nerdy inventors getting the chicks these days?

I think somebody doing a "scientific study" was perhaps fantasizing...

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dlowan wrote:

It seems "Dr Strangelove" -(the film, not the character) - said it all - men should never share their vital essences! LOL!

DAMN SKIPPY!

http://home.mindspring.com/~fcalaja/_uimages/cigarabc.jpg

General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.
Group Captain Lionel Mandrake: Lord, Jack.
Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began?
Mandrake: Aye, no, no. I don't Jack.
Ripper:. A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.
Mandrake: Uh, Jack, Jack, listen, tell me, tell me, Jack. When did you first...become...well, develop this theory?
Ripper: Well, I, uh...I...I...first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love.
Mandrake: Hmm.
Ripper: Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue...a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I...I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence.
Mandrake: Hmm.
Ripper: I can assure you that it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women uh...women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake.
Mandrake: No.
Ripper: But I...I do deny them my essence.

as do i.

"God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all."

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LOL!

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Mrs. SealPoet gets my vital fluids on occasion, but she also gets, and encourages my 'essence'.

Just had my boys with us for three weeks (part-time dad, mostly weekends 'cept at times, like in summer). Nothing to inspire creativity than to come up with a fresh good-night story every night.

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Marriage and children kill creativity in men?

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