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Empathy is hard-wired into the mind, study finds

 
 
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 08:55 am
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 801 • Replies: 9
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 09:02 am
Quote:
"One reason these people may have the guts to push someone off a bridge is that they don't comprehend how their actions would be evaluated by others," she said.


Interesting topic, and interesting point there.
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Quincy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 02:36 pm
I keep coming across this idea of pushing a person in front of a train to save a number of other people- psychiatrists/psychologists must have a thing for trains.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 03:41 pm
If you push someone in front of a train you're a murderer. If you watch a trolley kill 5 people you're a witness/bystander. People die all the time and you'd have to be screwed up in the head to feel responsible for everyone that died just because it might have been somehow possible for you to save them. We think in terms of our own perspective not in terms of maximizing some global goodness function so it makes perfect sense that only people with dysfunctional brains would go around murdering people to save others.
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Quincy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 09:59 am
I must disagree stuh: you have a choice- to kill one person and save five, or save one and kill five- in that light it seems obvious that the loss of one life is not as bad as the loss of five. Pushing the one person may be murder of one person, but how could we say that allowing the murder of five rather than one, when you have the power to change that, is better? The rub comes with the fact that you have to physically push the person yourself. Consider (beware!, wildy hypothetical situation ahead); a maniacal mass murderer has said that he will definitely kill either one hostage, or kill five (forget motive and all that)- which would you rather have, if it was your choice? This is no different as the example where you push the one person, as; due to your choice, either one person or five will be killed.

But then with over-population and everything....
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Quincy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 10:06 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/health/psychology/31book.html?_r=1&8dpc&oref=slogin

Quote:
Who doesn't know the difference between right and wrong? Yet that essential knowledge, generally assumed to come from parental teaching or religious or legal instruction, could turn out to have a quite different origin.

Primatologists like Frans de Waal have long argued that the roots of human morality are evident in social animals like apes and monkeys. The animals' feelings of empathy and expectations of reciprocity are essential behaviors for mammalian group living and can be regarded as a counterpart of human morality.

Marc D. Hauser, a Harvard biologist, has built on this idea to propose that people are born with a moral grammar wired into their neural circuits by evolution. In a new book, "Moral Minds" (HarperCollins 2006), he argues that the grammar generates instant moral judgments which, in part because of the quick decisions that must be made in life-or-death situations, are inaccessible to the conscious mind.

People are generally unaware of this process because the mind is adept at coming up with plausible rationalizations for why it arrived at a decision generated subconsciously.

Dr. Hauser presents his argument as a hypothesis to be proved, not as an established fact. But it is an idea that he roots in solid ground, including his own and others' work with primates and in empirical results derived by moral philosophers.

snip

Suppose you are standing by a railroad track. Ahead, in a deep cutting from which no escape is possible, five people are walking on the track. You hear a train approaching. Beside you is a lever with which you can switch the train to a sidetrack. One person is walking on the sidetrack. Is it O.K. to pull the lever and save the five people, though one will die?

Most people say it is.

Assume now you are on a bridge overlooking the track. Ahead, five people on the track are at risk. You can save them by throwing down a heavy object into the path of the approaching train. One is available beside you, in the form of a fat man. Is it O.K. to push him to save the five?

Most people say no, although lives saved and lost are the same as in the first problem.

Why does the moral grammar generate such different judgments in apparently similar situations? It makes a distinction, Dr. Hauser writes, between a foreseen harm (the train killing the person on the track) and an intended harm (throwing the person in front of the train), despite the fact that the consequences are the same in either case. It also rates killing an animal as more acceptable than killing a person.

Many people cannot articulate the foreseen/intended distinction, Dr. Hauser says, a sign that it is being made at inaccessible levels of the mind. This inability challenges the general belief that moral behavior is learned. For if people cannot articulate the foreseen/intended distinction, how can they teach it?
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 10:12 am
I said it before and I'll say it again...people (you and I) don't actually care how many people die. Our happiness does not come about by minimizing population deaths.

Someone just died as I wrote this. Good riddance, I don't care...and you're not crying either. See, you don't care how many people are dying around you.

The only relevance that other peoples deaths have on you is

a) do you feel guilty
b) do you miss them

Sure you will feel guilty if you let 5 people die, but guilt is tied to your actions more so than to the results of your actions. If you push the person you will feel more guilty later on than if you just watched as a bystander. You'll feel guilty if you just watch and don't do anything but not nearly as guilty as if you killed someone...and rightly so, because it is not your responsibility to save every person and stop every murderer.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 10:26 am
Some additional analysis of the situation would be required before I'd sacrifice a random person: is the one person responsible, somehow, for the five deaths? Are the five people responsible for standing on the train tracks, and thus accepted the risk themselves? Could you sacrifice yourself to save the five people, or just a random stranger?

A random person, not causally connected to the five people in danger, should not be required to become the sacrifice for the other's survival.
0 Replies
 
Quincy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 03:35 pm
stuh505 wrote:
I said it before and I'll say it again...people (you and I) don't actually care how many people die. Our happiness does not come about by minimizing population deaths.


Why should everything be done for our own happiness? Is our happiness more important than the next person's? No, happiness is relative, and yours is not more important than anothers, individual happiness is no criterion for social relations and actions; the maximisation of hapiness for the maximum number of people should therefore be the aim- i.e. utilitarianism.
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 05:40 pm
I don't think it doesn't have anything to do with what makes sense, it has to do with how your emotions are hard-coded...
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