Setanta
 
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 05:20 pm
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 6,627 • Replies: 98
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Swimpy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 05:27 pm
Poor baby. Have you tried doggy tranquilizers? I understand that with medication and a lot of love dogs can overcome this fear. I know Miss Cleo gets plenty of love.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 05:43 pm
Aw man, yer breakin' me up here Set, seriously....holy cow...there are several approaches to treating extreme anxiety in dogs, some helpful, some just plain weird. Here is one link that covers a few of the more popular treatments. It is for Golden Retrievers, but all dogs with storm anxiety have the same symptoms:

http://oldgoldrescue.net/storm.html

I am going to go feed and hug my dog now.....
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 05:46 pm
I suppose i ought to have posted this in the Pets forum, but it is, for me, at any rate, less about the dog, for whom i have no fears that she will be well cared for and sheltered as much as possible from her fears . . . rather, the thread, which i was unable to place in the categories available, is intended to concern the subject of the final line . . .

Ahem . . .


Setanta wrote:
The heart is such a very arcane landscape, but imperfectly glimpsed through the mists which always arise there, from causes unknown and unknowable . . .
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 06:30 pm
ok is it HP Lovecraft? if it aint, it oughta be.

Doggie tranks. a little diazapem. about 2mg per 10 lb will knock them into a goofy , almost comical high. my main dog is very fulguraphobic.
We used to slip him some valium and he got very melloow. Of course, when hes comin down , he gets really bitchy. so do the trank thing just to get her over the fear, and, eventually shell lose her hysteria.
You say she was a rescue dog/ what'd she rescue, the fuzzy toys and slippers?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 06:31 pm
No, it ain't Lovecraft, it's Kelly . . .

Geeze, maybe a kind moderator will come move this to pets and gardening, and put everyone out of my misery . . .
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 06:39 pm
I am still pondering.....that last statement brings up so many things, it seems I can only ask more questions. I can't decide whether philosophy and debate or relationships might serve the story better....I will come back to this after some thought.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 06:43 pm
You mean the drawer of POGO?
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Rae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 06:45 pm
I think I understand, Setanta.

I didn't overcome my fear of the dark until very recently. And wonder upon wonders, I happened to give birth to a child who carried the same fear. When he was old enough to verbalise his fear, I was forced to become brave.....for him.

As loved as Miss Cleo is ~ and even if she can now find comfort when she's scared, she still remembers. My son still calls me when he's scared. Even though he's two hundred pounds and six feet tall ~ he still wants someone around who understands.

My son's house is still the place where my Maggie (cocker-spaniel/datschun mix) calls home ~ your description of Miss Cleo reminds me so much of Maggie! Maggie just turned thirteen years old ~ and she is still petrified of thunderstorms.....thankfully, she learned to jump into bed with someone to calm her. Being in Florida ~ thunderstorms are normal/common ~ when no one is home, she still does what comes naturally. Yuck. But, we still love her. She doesn't want to make a mess, but she knows that we understand why she does.

Jeez.....I can ramble, can't I? Embarrassed
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 06:45 pm
LOL! I think I get you , Setanta.

The thing is, when this sort of discussion arises, I always shrink - because I have a terrible secret - I am, somehow, generally able to shield myself from human pain and suffering - but never from that of animals, and I think there is something really, really wrong with that.

I assume it has something to do with how I would be distraught for days, inconsoleably, if I became aware of human suffering as a kid - and I blocked it out to some extent. Still do, because I deal with it every day, and it is not helpful to become overwhelmed - but I do speculate a lot, and try to understand the feelings, or heart if you will, of people who perpetrate abuse, for instance - not least because this is what children ask all the time - how could s/he do it? Why did he do it?

My best understanding has come through studies in infant mental health, which seeks to unravel how we become human, emotionally, mentally and physically. Oh, and listening, of course.

I am imagining what might have led to the terrible lack of empathy of the owner from whom Miss Cleo was rescued - and I cannot help but see the dark cellar and storms as a metaphor for their emotions, for, as we know, empathy grows from being empathised with - or sometimes, incredibly, seemingly without this, it grows anyway.

Heart of Darkness stuff, eh?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 06:49 pm
Indeed, a good way to put it . . .

(Been hangin' out with Canajuns, eh?)
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 06:52 pm
farmerman wrote:
You mean the drawer of POGO?


No . . . i mean me . . .

Rae, if i have been correctly informed, Florida has more thunderstorms and lightening strikes than any other area on Earth . . . poor Miss Cleo could never live there . . .
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Rae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 06:54 pm
So, you can imagine my Maggie's fears, Setanta!
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 07:10 pm
it takes some time and care but, like any learned response, a dog can overcome the fear of thunder. All it takes is some coaching and , the drug may be of assistance if youve inadvertently reinforced the puppys response. i train border collies and they are among the most sensitive to sharp sounds . They can be taught to overcome their specific fright reaction. My father had a kennel in which he raised and trained Irish setters for hunting. he would get many a dog that was gun shy. The shyness was a reinforced response in which the master becomes an unwitting enabler. Some owners would sit the dog on a spot with a short handling leash and fire shells over their heads. This is the wrong thing to do.
It sounds stupid but Ernie, my main dog, would run under a bed at the sound of approaching thunder, so Id crawl under there with him armed with all kinds of toys and crap. At first wed give him a downer and play with him in his refuge. After a while he realized that storms were a source of fun. now hes indifferent to storms but hell go and bring a squeaky toy and we have to carry on. Fortunately others in the family can carry out this duty in my frequent absence.

Even if your dogs an elder , she can be trained to exchange her fear for something else.

still sounds like Lovecraft

now, the only question is, and I mean this in all sincerity. Can you fit under a bed with your dog ?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 07:11 pm
Well, prolly can fit under Lovey's bed, just won't be able to move around once i get there . . .
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 07:18 pm
We have a storm coming up here soon....or so it looks. We are lucky. Austin is pretty good with the storms, but not entirely happy, that's for sure. When we went to look at the Cavalier King Charles puppies (yes, that's where the name comes from, not caviar) the one we currently own was so curious to meet new people, he got his head stuck in the grate closing off the puppy room from the adult dogs and let out a yelp/scream like nothing we had ever heard. The breeder, an exceptionally sensitive lady (everything in the house was Cavalier themed), yelled almost as loud as the dog....they successfully released our pup from the grate....at that time we did not have our minds made up, but the breeder said to Mrs. cav, "if you could just hold him for a bit, he's really shaken up." We were sold. Funny thing is, it wasn't even her pup (at least, not one she had bred herself), she just knew it needed the attention. We took him anyhow, how could we not? I didn't grow up with dogs. I had rodents and fish, but c'mon. Austin is my first dog, and I do believe that everything I currently know about unconditional love I have learned from this friggin dog. One thing I have heard about training a dog out of fear is that coddling is a no-no. Diversion works better apparently. Our guy used to be afraid of other dogs, but we let him sort it out with happy encouragement, despite our breaking hearts at seeing his fear. Now he is all "I'm in your face and happy about it!" even with dogs 1000 times his size. Hope things work out....the tragedy of human existence will never never tear me up as much as the tragedy of animal existence. I ramble, so I shall stop here....
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 07:20 pm
cavfancier wrote:
. . . the tragedy of human existence will never never tear me up as much as the tragedy of animal existence. I ramble, so I shall stop here....


Bingo . . . second poster got it . . . kinda . . .
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 07:33 pm
Well, adult human against adult human is a fair fight. To take it out on an animal (or a child) that only has love in their heart is wrong to the point of being a capital offence, IMO. I am pretty mutable, but this is one issue that I dig my heels in over.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 07:34 pm
I've known those i'd like to personally execute over such an issue--probably the one instance in which i'd favor capital punishment . . .
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Rae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 07:38 pm
Punishing an animal? Oh boy.....don't get me started..... Rolling Eyes
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