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The Iraq Questions

 
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Dec, 2002 03:49 pm
Doctrine of Pre-emptive Was now in force:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/021226/226/2xhzy.html
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Dec, 2002 04:37 pm
Yes -and our (Australian) PM has, us usual, slavishly agreed with it -thus annoying our Asian neighbours - and terrifying every sheep in New Zealand!
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Dec, 2002 05:41 pm
dlowan, Can you enlighten us on the number of sheep in NZ vs the human population? I heard that number several times, but can't remember just now. I know it's some fantastic number. Wink c.i/
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Dec, 2002 05:47 pm
I know that cows vastly outnumber humans in my neighborhood, but they are not politically active, therefore merit little special accommodation.



timber
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Dec, 2002 08:57 am
Given that the citizens of these nations are either acting as though they were sheep or cattle, or being treated as though they were by their respective governments--is a count which distinguishes ovine, bovine and human members of the local population of any significance?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Dec, 2002 11:29 am
Setanta, I trust that our government here in the USA treats its citizens with disdain. If they treated us like animals, we'd have half a chance at survival...... c.i.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Dec, 2002 04:40 pm
Hi all

Was away, now back

Manchester, Guisborough, Tikrit and Basra all looking great with festive cheer
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Dec, 2002 07:40 pm
Steve

Moderately nice to see you again. Watch out for Setanta, he's apparently feeling his oats tonight (an activity Samual Johnson would surely frown at).
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Dec, 2002 09:11 am
Blatham

I'm a little overcome with the warmth of that reception. This thread seems to have moved on a little from the impending war in Iraq to the more gentile consideration of antipodean grazing animals. I don't think I'll bother to read up how it got there.

Setanta, hope you enjoy your oats.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Dec, 2002 10:15 am
That was moderately overwhelming, wasn't it?
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Dec, 2002 11:32 am
While immoderately awaiting with anticipation for the ovine and bovine count from down under, I thought this point of view from Lebanon might be of interest.

link-- http://www.dailystar.com.lb/opinion/28_10_02_c.htm


Opinion
United States has ideological, economic and Israeli-driven motives for militant stance In 1899, imperialist British poet Rudyard Kipling published his famous poem, The White Man's Burden, after the US had defeated Spain and occupied the Philippines. Kipling called on the Americans to shoulder their historical responsibility of "civilizing" the Filipino savages, even if that entailed invading, defeating and annihilating them. It seems the Bush administration believes in the same concept of Western supremacy.
On Sept. 23, National Security adviser Condoleezza Rice declared in a Financial Times interview that the US "is determined to defend democracy in the Muslim world and is leading Muslims on the march to freedom."
In a staff discussion in 1948, then-President Dwight D. Eisenhower described "the campaign of hatred against us (in the Arab world), not by the governments but by the people," and asked: "Why do they hate us?" His National Security Council outlined the basic argument: The US supports corrupt and oppressive governments and is "opposing political or economic progress" because of its interest in controlling the oil resources of the region.
Now, 44 years later, President George W. Bush is asking the same question: "Why do they hate us?"
Today, many ordinary people in the Gulf are asking whether the US has the legal and moral right to change a country's government by military force.
Articles 41 and 42 of the UN Charter stress that a member nation of the UN does not have the right to impose its will by force on another. The Security Council made exceptions to this rule, but even these have to fulfill two conditions: Military action can only be initiated if (1) all peaceful means have been exhausted, or (2) the country concerned has committed a major violation of a Security Council resolution.
Article 51 of the UN Charter also empowers member states to use military force in self-defense against armed attack.
The above three articles justified the use of military force to evict the Iraqi invaders from Kuwait in 1991. That was why Gulf and Arab states supported forcibly evicting the Iraqis from Kuwait.
In 2002, however, these conditions are nonexistent. That is why there is no Gulf/Arab/international support for America's war plans.
The administration has produced many excuses to attack Iraq, such as Iraq's violation of 16 different UN resolutions. However, Iraq is not the only country to have violated UN resolutions: Israel, for example, is in violation of 68 of them.
Another excuse is that Iraq possesses weapons of mass destruction (WMD), and has used them against its neighbors as well as its own people. True. Nevertheless, when Iraq first used WMDs against Iran in December 1983, President Ronald Reagan sent Donald Rumsfeld (now Bush's defense secretary) to Baghdad to meet Saddam Hussein and discuss reopening the US Embassy as well as improving economic and commercial ties between the two countries. The following year (March 1984) ­ around the time the UN published a report detailing Iraq's use of poison gas against the Iranians ­ Rumsfeld met with Tareq Aziz.
While Saddam was merrily gassing the Kurds of Halabja, moreover, then-President George H. Bush agreed to extend a $500 million credit line to Iraq for the purchase of US agricultural products. This sum was doubled the following year.
In addition, former UN weapons inspector Scott Ritter says that 90 to 95 percent of Iraq's WMDs have been destroyed, and the IAEA declared (in 1998) that Iraq's nuclear weapons program had been totally dismantled.
According to many political analysts in the Middle East, there are three main reasons the Bush administration is adamant in calling for the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and attacking Iraq.
1.The first reason is ideology: The Republican administration believes America must project itself as an imperial power that can have its own way. The new US national security strategy unveiled by Bush on Sept. 20 was not a reaction to Sept. 11; it was the culmination of a process started 10 years ago by a group of American right-wing neocons that viewed the world in a similar light to English philosopher Thomas Hobbes (who said national interests could never be reconciled). According to these neoconservatives, US security can never be guaranteed except by overwhelming military superiority and absolute independence of will.
Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Zalmai Khalilzad (now the US envoy to Afghanis-tan) kick-started the process at the request of then-Defense Secretary Dick Cheney. Wolfowitz and Khalilzad produced a paper in February 1992 that called for imposing America's will, and securing world peace through the use of American military and economic power. They recommended the Pentagon use force to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons in Iraq and North Korea.
After the Republicans lost the White House to Bill Clinton, a committee was formed to prepare what was called the Project for the New American Century. In September 2000, this committee produced a report that set out a future defense strategy for the US.
After George W. Bush won the presidency, Project authors (Wolfowitz, Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton, and Steve Cambone, Rumsfeld's special assistant, among others) occupied prominent positions in the new administration. It was these people who formulated Bush's new national security strategy ­ a policy based almost word for word on the Project for the New American Century. That was before Sept. 11.
The current administration is carrying out the objectives of the Project in the Middle East. In September 2000, this conservative, right-wing, expansionist cabal defined Iran and Iraq, in addition to North Korea, as being its principal short-term goals. These three countries were subsequently lumped together by Bush in his infamous "axis of evil."
The authors of the Project called for building permanent US military bases in the Middle East, southern Europe, Latin America and Southeast Asia ­ which explains the steps taken by the Bush administration after Sept. 11 to establish an American military presence in Georgia, the Philippines and Colombia.
2.The second reason is economic: The Bush administration is infested with former businessmen (Bush, Cheney and Rice) who are close to American oil companies.
Despite the fact that there have been voices in the administration calling for reducing America's dependence on imported Middle Eastern oil, and relying instead on supplies from Russia, the Caspian Sea, West Africa, and Latin America, it is envisaged that oil from the Middle East will continue to be indispensable for at least 100 years.
In 2001, the US imported 2.7 million barrels of oil per day (bpd) from Gulf Cooperation Countries (GCC) countries and Iraq ­ fully 30 percent of US oil imports. Saudi Arabia is America's largest foreign oil provider with 1.6 million bpd, more than what the US imports from its immediate neighbors Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela. Next comes Iraq with 795,000 bpd, then the other Gulf Arab states with 258,000 bpd.
It is projected that the US will import two-thirds of its oil needs in 2002, half of which will be from the Gulf.
Moreover, Iraq's proven oil reserves of 112 billion barrels come second only to Saudi Arabia's 261 billion barrels.
Thus, "regime change" in Iraq and control of its oil resources will (1) ensure a safer source of oil for the United States; (2) allow the US to deal more firmly with other Gulf producers; (3) provide the US with a stranglehold over its competitors (Japan, the EU, and China) that rely on Gulf oil.
3.The third reason is Israel: Invading Iraq would ensure Israeli supremacy over the Middle East by removing one of its principal adversaries. Concentrating on Iraq would also free up Israel's hands to deal with the Palestinians as the Jewish state sees fit.
In April 2002, neoconservatives William Kristol and Donald Kagan called on the American administration to abandon its mediating role in the Palestinian-Israeli peace process and concentrate instead on Iraq. The road to real peace and security, they argued, goes straight through Baghdad.
It is in Israel's interests, they continued, to have a friendly regime in Baghdad that would provide it with oil and various commercial opportunities. Iraq might even provide a solution for the problem of the Palestinian refugees, who could be relocated to western Iraq within a unified Hashemite Kingdom.

Mohammed Abdullah Al Roken
is a UAE academic and analyst who
teaches public law at UAE University.
He wrote this commentary for
The Daily Star
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Dec, 2002 11:40 am
The opening passage of the article Diane has posted here immediately made me think of our Mr. Clemens. He wrote some acid prose indeed on the subject of the "heroics" of American soldiers in the Phillipines.

But before he wrote any of that, he wrote The War Prayer:

It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and spluttering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety's sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.

Sunday morning came -- next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams -- visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender! Then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation:

"God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest! Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!"

Then came the "long" prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory --

An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher's side and stood there waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued with his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, "Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!"
The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside -- which the startled minister did -- and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:

"I come from the Throne -- bearing a message from Almighty God!" The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. "He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such shall be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import -- that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of -- except he pause and think.

"God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two -- one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this -- keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

"You have heard your servant's prayer -- the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it -- that part which the pastor -- and also you in your hearts -- fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these words: 'Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!' That is sufficient. the whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory--must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!

"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle -- be Thou near them! With them -- in spirit -- we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

(After a pause.) "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits!"

It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Dec, 2002 06:13 pm
Dianne

Very interesting article. I have already come to the conclusion that the war is about

securing oil supplies
protecting Israel (= destroying Israel's enemy)
getting rid of Saddam, being of no further use

and also, revenge for daddy.

but hey,

Saddam is one bad man, not many voluntarily rally to his support
Oil is needed, at least until the hydrogen economy powers up
Israel has a right to exist, within its pre 67 borders

So perhaps a war that ensures a quick clean regime change is not too bad an idea after all.
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Dec, 2002 07:02 pm
Revenge for daddy sums it all up.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Dec, 2002 08:46 pm
Setanta

You post a lot of wonderful stuff for the rest of us. The Twain piece is a very lovely gift. Thank you most kindly, friend.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Dec, 2002 08:50 pm
blatham, If the Clemmen's piece is a lovely gift, go to the Philosophy forum, and find "A Christmas Apple" sent to me by a writer friend. It's a jewel of a piece. c.i.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Dec, 2002 09:19 pm
Worth reading:

Iraq and the Arabs' Future
from Foreign Affairs magazine, Jan/Feb:

LINK TO FOREIGN AFFAIRS
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Dec, 2002 09:42 pm
LW...thanks...will read that as soon as I have the moments.

Diane...your piece is very good too (I'd actually bumped into it somewhere) and I've linked it into another relevant thread. thanks.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Dec, 2002 09:26 am
Have you seen those pictures of Donald Rumsfeld selling Saddam the chemicals he needs to make sarin and vx nerve agents? Big grins and handshakes all round. Quite heartwarming really.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Dec, 2002 09:36 am
Steve

I think I ought to take this opportunity to single you out for immoderate New Year's wishes. I understand that sometimes I come across as cold and unloving, but in your case, it is merely that I'm working very hard to hold down my sexual attraction to you, anxious that my vital physical responses might find in you an uncomfortable recipient.
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