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Probiotics

 
 
Reply Mon 11 Dec, 2006 11:28 am
Hi,

I've been both fascinated and alarmed to learn about the importance of gut microflora for good health, and possible bad effects of taking antibiotics.

I'm disappointed by the poor quality of advice one generally finds on this topic.

As I understand it, the gut naturally contains thousands of species of microflora, in a complex, interactive community. Many are passed on from mother to fetus. It's my impression that antibiotics don't kill all gut microflora, but they greatly reduce the number of species. It isn't clear if the lost species all reappear, eventually, or how long it takes. I'd like to understand this better.

Some science magazine articles describe the diversity of gut microflora. I wonder if there's a laboratory test that can tell me how much microflora diversity I've lost because of antibiotics.

The usual advice is to eat "probiotic" food. That usually means "yogurt." That seems silly. Yogurt contains two or three organisms, at most, and it's not even clear if yogurt-related organisms are wiped out by antibiotics. If hundreds or thousands of species of gut microflora get wiped out by antibiotics, what's the point of eating a food that might replace one or two species?

Same goes for other fermented foods, like miso or cheese.

Then there's the question of how the organisms in probiotic foods can survive the journey through stomach acid. The main purpose of stomach acid is to act as a micro-organism killer, to prevent intestinal infections. I wonder if certain kinds of foods keep friendly organisms alive as they pass through the stomach acid. Maybe organisms can hide safely in fibrous foods like cabbage or something. Liquid, like yogurt, or miso, does not seem like the ideal vehicle. Some gut microflora might easily survive transit through stomach acid, but some must survive better than others, without some kind of safe transport mechanism. I don't know. I wonder if anybody does.

I've taken antibiotics many times in my life. I don't take them unless I really need them, but I've had various bacterial or protozoal infections serious enough to justify their use.

I'd like to understand the optimal strategy for restoring a normal ecology of gut microflora. I don't know if anyone really knows, but some experts must know a lot more about this topic than I do.

I've had crazy ideas. Like maybe leave cabbage leaves, cooked or raw sitting around various places, maybe even in some reasonably clean soil (no cat poop), for a few days, then eat them. Try same with other fibrous vegetables and fruit, or even cooked meat, as long as it doesn't get grossly rotten. Maybe don't chew real thoroughly. Seems like this procedure could introduce many, many kinds of microflora into the gut. Presumably, beneficial ones would stay and thrive. The others would not survive. I'm not ready to try this yet, but I'm thinking it over.

So, I'm eager to get some reliable information and well-informed advice. Bring it on!

Cheers,


Tim
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 591 • Replies: 5
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Dec, 2006 01:17 pm
Plenty of non-beneficial organisms can thrive in your body. That's why we take antibiotics in the first place.
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fishdrip
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Dec, 2006 03:23 pm
DrewDad wrote:
Plenty of non-beneficial organisms can thrive in your body. That's why we take antibiotics in the first place.


Uhhh... I know that. A careful read of my message would make that clear enough. Maybe you skimmed.

For instance, I had a pretty bad case of bacterial pneumonia a few years ago. Penicillin might have saved my life on that occasion, and others. Nevertheless, the penicillin might have done some harm while it was saving my life. I'm not complaing about the penicillin. I'm interested to know how much harm was done, and if it can be reversed.

Tim
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fishdrip
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Dec, 2006 03:26 pm
DrewDad wrote:
Plenty of non-beneficial organisms can thrive in your body. That's why we take antibiotics in the first place.


Uhhh... I know that. A careful read of my message would make that clear enough. Maybe you skimmed.

For instance, I had a pretty bad case of bacterial pneumonia a few years ago. Penicillin might have saved my life on that occasion, and others. Nevertheless, the penicillin might have done some harm while it was saving my life. I'm not complaing about the penicillin. I'm interested to know how much harm was done, and if it can be reversed.

Tim
0 Replies
 
spidergal
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jan, 2007 10:30 am
Can't help with this, but I find it interesting. I'll bug my prof with this question!
0 Replies
 
fishdrip
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jan, 2007 03:24 pm
Hey spidergal, that's great. I'll look forward to finding out what you find out.

Tim
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