It's beginning to look a lot like chickenmas

Re: It's beginning to look a lot like chickenmas

boomerang wrote:

Tell it to me straight: What do you think of the chairty gift as opposed to a thingy gift? Really? Swear?

Thingy.

The purpose of gifts is to show their recipients they're important to you. To serve that purpose, a gift must be something the recipient values. You may or may not value it yourself, too, but that's not the point of it being a gift. Has this overtoyed kid ever approached anyone and said: "I really, really want to help needy families in Africa"? If it did, a charity gift is fine. Even if it didn't, that doesn't mean that saving a starving family is a bad thing. It's obviously a good thing. But then it's not your gift to the kid anymore. It's your gift to the needy African family. To pretend the kid has anything to do with your gift would seem phony to me.

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Okay, here's an idea.

If you would rather someone make a charitable donation, TELL THEM SO!!!

Our families always ask for gift ideas...in fact, they expect a list no later than Thanksgiving. (Except for my son, we're all adults.) So this year, I am going to give them a short list of charities and suggest they make a donation in my name in lieu of a present.

I would be thrilled if they did the same thing, but that's up to them. With very few exceptions, adults are difficult to buy for. Maybe I'll inspire them to put their money to better use, or maybe they'll still want a thingy, who knows. I'll go by (or go buy) what they want.

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fishin wrote:

I suspect you might not like it if your name was attached to a racist group, for example.

such a group would not receive charitable status here, so that's not a problem.

I still don't want to get crap - and would rather get an envelope indicating a donation to literally any recognized charity.

I'm sometimes stuck with having to put 'something' into an envelope for someone that I either don't really want to get something for, or my esthetics don't match theirs in any way. I'll continue to go with the charitable donations in those cases. If the card recipient appreciates it - so much the better - I do make some effort to match people/charities up - but ya know, sometimes I think " you're lucky I'm acknowledging you at all ".

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Eva wrote:

Okay, here's an idea.

If you would rather someone make a charitable donation, TELL THEM SO!!!

That way I have no problem with it. The gift is for you; the gift-givers want to make you happy; so you are informing them what makes you happy. No problem at all, even kind of cool.

***

About the scheme originally described in the initial thread. On second thought, I doesn't seem as bad as I originally thought: It seems even worse. I abhor and disdain it. I imagine it's Christmas season. The postman delivers a Christmas card. It's from my good friend boomerang in America. It starts with "Dear Thomas!" and, in the most pious tone, goes on to make the following points:

You are not getting any present this Christmas.
If I had given you a present this Christmas, it would've cost me $20.
But as I said, I am not, repeat, not, giving you a present this Christmas. I decided I'd rather spend those $20 on some random stranger in Africa.
I'm really just writing to inform you what a generous, warm-hearted person I am. I thought you might find that interesting.
Merry Christmas, Boomerang

No matter how piously worded, this letter would piss me off. Point 2, the most harmless on the list, is already a serious gaffe under German mores. Only boors brag about the money they spend on the gifts they give. But the second point only boasts; the other four insult. All this effort to tell me that somebody else is getting my Christmas gift! I would rather get a Christmas card saying "fück you." That, at least, would express an honest, heart-felt sentiment.

In any case, Boomerang would end up being a much less close friend than before she sent that letter. What a rude way to ruin ones Christmas!

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Whoa! Thomas has really said very strongly what my gut reaction is...part of is that I REALLY try to get people something I know they will love, and love that.

I guess, as an orphling and all, I do not have a whole bunch of people I HAVE to buy for, so each gift I give is because I want to.

Thing is, I keep thinking of the families getting the cow or whatever, and feeling that I shouldn't have that gut reaction.

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I get Deb on this, and by extension, Thomas. Won't elaborate on the whys of the meaning of gift, as gift giving is complex.

Edit, I do get Thomas, not by extension but by gut.

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My parents died many decades ago. I am divorced, not by choice. I have no siblings, no children. My cousins haven't called in a year and a half, they are very busy, though I have called them on holidays. My friends mean a great deal to me. I don't want a goat in a card on its way to somewhere else. I'd rather have a real letter. Luckily, I have pals who still do small gifts.

So, that is a personal situation.

Hard to extrapolate from that except to say why don't you just donate some day in July?

I see I've gotten more personal here, more exposed, incrementally.

As I say all this, I remember being at an old boyfriend's family house for a christmas some long time ago. I swear, the gifts were stacked almost six feet high. I couldn't believe my eyes.

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General...Its beginning to look a lot like "Chickenmas
OSSOBUCO : Although I have never met you in person.." I love you.

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Interesting.

Most people I know don't NEED anything. They don't need crap. They don't need clutter. They don't need chocolate. They don't need ties or magazine subscriptions. They don't need anything.

I like to acknowledge that I'm thinking of them. I try to donate to a charity I know has meaning to them. They get a card from the charity that says a donation has been made in their name. In the cases that I'm aware of, there is no way for them to find out if I've donated $1 or $1000 in their name. In fact, unless I specifically request it, there's no way for them to know that I was the donor.

They get a note/letter for the season/occasion/whatever from me.

People seem pretty pleased with it. They say they appreciate it. I know that when I get cards saying a donation's been made to a charity in my name, I appreciate it. It makes me very happy when it's a pet charity, but pretty much any registered charity will make me happy.

I'll stick with this approach for the people in my life who don't need things.

Maybe it's a generational/cultural thing? <shrug> I like it.

No more Avon soap or lotion to stare at. No more strange craft show plates (craft show stuff is the ultimate horror to me). No more subscriptions to magazines that go straight into the recycling box.

(wondering what kind of charity sends notes telling the amount of the donation - that seems odd to me)

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(Hi, Joe!)

ehBeth, this to me is a question for the well off middle class. Not that it is a shame to be middle class, or above that, but some of us can view that sardonically.

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Thomas so you would rather I buy you something that you dont really need, or perhaps something off your wish list that you provided me. Some trinket or ugly vase or a wallet/tie/socks for christmas than make a donation to a charitable cause? Seems kinda greedy and selfish to me

I say it that way not to be confrontational but so that you can see how I interpreted your post.

I cant see your point about gift values either. I am just greatfull that my friends thought enough of me to spend anything on me. If the gift is well chosen it can be $1.50 or $150.00 it doesnt matter.

So how does everyone feel if i dont give them a gift/card telling them I'm making a charitable donation, but make it anyway and dont give them a gift/card. My bet is that would be interpreted as that lousy dadpad, I spent $20.00 on him and he doesnt even have the decency to give me a card.

I actually think its your interpretation of the points you raised thats the problem.

Lots of me me me me in your post

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My gift to you Thomas would be

http://www.usefulgifts.org/images/itemM.jpg

M: Toilet $70

Afghanistan, India, Kenya, Sudan, Uganda
Relieve a family from disease and a dirty environment with a household toilet. Communities are trained in construction techniques and sanitation education to create healthier villages.
Photo: These boys are proud of the new toilets in their village in Mazar-i-Sharif, northern Afghanistan. Made from traditional mud bricks, with a concrete slab and a ventilation pipe, the toilets are part of a SERVE Afghanistan community development project.

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Actually I just checked and the cards a recipient would recieve dont have a dollar amount anywhere on them anywhwere.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/dadpad/scan.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/dadpad/Scan0001.jpg

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ehBeth wrote:

Interesting.

Most people I know don't NEED anything. They don't need crap. They don't need clutter. They don't need chocolate. They don't need ties or magazine subscriptions. They don't need anything.

I like to acknowledge that I'm thinking of them. I try to donate to a charity I know has meaning to them. They get a card from the charity that says a donation has been made in their name. In the cases that I'm aware of, there is no way for them to find out if I've donated $1 or $1000 in their name. In fact, unless I specifically request it, there's no way for them to know that I was the donor.

They get a note/letter for the season/occasion/whatever from me.

People seem pretty pleased with it. They say they appreciate it. I know that when I get cards saying a donation's been made to a charity in my name, I appreciate it. It makes me very happy when it's a pet charity, but pretty much any registered charity will make me happy.

I'll stick with this approach for the people in my life who don't need things.

Maybe it's a generational/cultural thing? <shrug> I like it.

No more Avon soap or lotion to stare at. No more strange craft show plates (craft show stuff is the ultimate horror to me). No more subscriptions to magazines that go straight into the recycling box.

(wondering what kind of charity sends notes telling the amount of the donation - that seems odd to me)

Oh reason not the need!!!

(I am having a very King Lear evening around here....)

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dadpad wrote:

Thomas so you would rather I buy you something that you dont really need, or perhaps something off your wish list that you provided me. Some trinket or ugly vase or a wallet/tie/socks for christmas than make a donation to a charitable cause? Seems kinda greedy and selfish to me

If ugly wallets and charitable gifts were the only choices, my reaction would be greedy. But they aren't the only choices. You also have the option not to give me any gift at all. That's what I'd prefer, because I believe in Sozobe's theory that gifts ought to connect people. You and I either know and care about each other enough to make gifts that "connect", or we don't. If we do, let's make them. If we don't -- and that's the only case where it makes sense to ask Boomerang's question -- no shame in that. But then I prefer it if you just sent me a tasteful "Season's Greetings" card that doesn't mention or include any gifts at all. I also don't mind not getting anything at all.

dadpad wrote:

I cant see your point about gift values either. I am just greatfull that my friends thought enough of me to spend anything on me. If the gift is well chosen it can be $1.50 or $150.00 it doesnt matter.

I agree it doesn't matter. That's why it doesn't belong into that letter. But as I understand ehBeth (edit: and your later post) the letter usually wouldn't actually mention any dollar values. Maybe I got the wrong picture from the initial description.

dadpad wrote:

My bet is that would be interpreted as that lousy dadpad, I spent $20.00 on him and he doesnt even have the decency to give me a card.

You lose that bet. Between remote acquaintances who just want to stay in touch, I prefer a "merry Christmas" card remaining moot about gifts. If I don't get anything at all, that's fine, too.

dadpad wrote:

Lots of me me me me in your post

That was unavoidable, as the intention of the post was to describe how I would react if I were given a charity gift. Lots of premature judgment in your post. Like you, I say it that way not to be confrontational but so that you can see how I interpreted your post.

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Well all I can say is that from personal experience over the last 2 seasons none of the recipients of these cards have given me the impression they would rather I didnt.

We have one small child in our extended family at present that we give a gift to I would actually rather not because she has toys and dolls and stuff coming out her ears but as someone else said she just wouldnt understand.

for those who want to
The world most usefull gift dogaloge

I do wish there was an organisation that could do this without the god bothering and jesus saves type stuff. But I bet the Sudanese family that get a goat dont give a flying fart about jesus anyway.

It would be interesting to see just how much of my donation actually reaches the people I want it to and not get skimmed off by some middle man administration fee.

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ossobuco wrote:

ehBeth, this to me is a question for the well off middle class. Not that it is a shame to be middle class, or above that, but some of us can view that sardonically.

Could well be. Not that I'm personally well-off, perhaps fringe-of-lower-middle-class.

Maybe that's why it matters, to me, where my hard-earned dollars go?

<edit out huge rant>

I buy gifts for people all the time - but not attached to specific official celebrations. That feels artificial to me. When I went to New York last week, I took tiny food-related gifts for the foodies I was meeting. Not because it was expected but because it was fun to share and I knew they'd get a kick out of it.

Expectation rankles.

I'll treat my immigrant neighbour's kids to things/activities they'll enjoy and don't expect, but no 'things' for a friend who needs nothing, but wants to know I remembered them. Donations have satisfied the need-nothing people for the past 15 - 20 years, and I'll keep on with that routine.

~~~~~~~~~~~

There's likely an overlay of "I hate (really hate, but feel bad about getting rid of) almost everything anyone gives me that they expect me to keep in my home" in my approach to this. A sort of do onto others factor - I don't want the crap people give me, maybe they'll catch on?

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ehBeth, I don't need much 'tall (well if you want to buy me a new couch that'd be swell) but I have this really cool little ceramic knot thingy hanging from my car mirror that I'm convinced has kept me free of car mishaps since I installed it and that is just cool-looking. It makes me happy in a few different ways; one is that every time I look at it I'm reminded of the really great gal who gave it to me.

That's the kind of gift I aspire to -- maybe it didn't cost much (so not the point) but it's thoughful and interesting and connective.

I can't imagine that any recipient would say they DIDN'T appreciate a card from a charity, as that's quite strong. People (that I know) pretty much always respond positively to a gift, no matter what it is, unless they absolutely HATE it or are looking to score obnoxiousness points. But as I understand it that's exactly why boomer started this thread -- to see what people would think of it when they're not bound by gift-etiquette. Seems like at the very least the reaction is mixed -- some people would like it, some wouldn't. Which seems to go back to, if you think the person would like it, go for it! If you don't...

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This thread has been very interesting and informative and I thank you all for sharing your opinions.

More than anything it has made me reflect on my gift giving/getting ideas in a new way.

Some of you might remember last year when I was planning Mo's birthday party and I wanted to ask people not to give gifts. (I finally settled on asking for seeds for his garden to be planted in the spring.) I'd have to go back and review the thread but I recall several people saying that it was inappropriate to try to dictate what kind of gift was given.

One thing having a child has taught me is that they want everything but that few things really "connects" with them. What things does Mo love best? His shovel. His bike. His treehouse. These things do not provide a lot of clues to what might connect with another child.

For me, adults are easy to connect with: I give photographs.

I would a thousand times rather have people pitch in to buy a cow in Mo's name than to send him a toy that will get a bit of play and then get ignored. I purge toys on a regular basis and he never has trouble picking out ones to give away and never misses them. It's not that he's ungrateful; there is really just not so much that holds his attention.

I guess I like the connectedness of giving a bee hive (or whatever) in a child's name more than I like the disconnectedness of another Barbie doll (or whatever).

On the birthday thread I came away with the idea that the gift was about the giver, now I'm not so sure.

Still thinking (but veering towards an ebeth, dadpad, greenwitch path).....

Great food for thought no matter which side of the coin you see as shinest. Thank you all again!

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ehBeth, I only just saw the post you made immediately preceding mine, funny. (For those who don't know, the car mirror thingy is what she gave to people at the Madison A2K gathering.)

I sympathize with the "getting useless junk" thing, and also with the "expectations rankle" thing and the tricky ways they connect. I think putting out the word that you'd prefer charity donations in your name would make sense, but when I think of doing it myself I get a little itchy because of the expectations thing.

For me, the "do unto others" part of what you describe is "give them something they actually want." You don't want the useless stuff -- there are people who feel equally strongly about not wanting these little cards saying that some people in Africa were given a cow in their name. Giving it to them anyway seems not so much "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" as "do unto others exactly the same thing that they're doing unto you that bothers you."

I know someone who has this one gift shop that she loves. I like it too, it's a great place. Not to everyone's taste, though. She always gets gifts from there -- usually she finds something she likes and then thinks of who to give it to. It's thoughtful, in her way, and sometimes it connects. But I think it's way more about HER than about the person who gets the gift. "Don't I have great taste? Isn't this beautiful? How can you not think so?" The charity stuff whether the person wants it or not strikes the same note, for me. (And again if the person wants it, I'll all for it. And am all for making donations to charity outside of a gift framework, in general.)

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It's beginning to look a lot like chickenmas

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