water bonds

Yes, generating Hydrogen gas from water is fairly easy to do. In fact it is done regularly by high school students in chemistry classes. The technical term for this is hydrolysis of water.

A bit of hydrogen can be generated by simply adding salt to water (as an electrolyte), attaching two wires to the terminals of a 6 volt battery and putting the ends of the wires into the water. If you set this up correctly you will see hydrogen bubbles on one wire and oxygen bubbles on the other.

If you want to do better, you will have to set up an apparatus like the one in the article I linked to below. When I was teaching chemistry, we used this method to fill small plastic vials with hydorgen which we then ignited with a spark to send the vials flying (this experiment was perfected by a colleague of mine and was quite popular with the students).

Link to Wikipedia Article on Hydrolysis of Water

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Hi ebrown_p . For people who believe in the hereafter; isn't this

mentioned in some holy books that seas will burst in fire? I suppose that

the breaking of the water bond will make this fire. Now this need a great

energy or force.

I like your experiment, provided that the two gases are not mixed

somehow.

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Sorry, but this doesn't make much sense and it doesn't help to explain the Scripture.

Water is what you get when you burn hydrogen. When you separate water into hydrogen and oxygen you are essentially unburning it. The amount of energy you get from burning water is the exact amount of energy you have to put into the water to separate (unburn) itt.

The energy from burning hydrogen would be in the form of the light and heat (and sound) that would represent the fire in this scripture.

But the question is why a Deity would go through this process of unburning the water only to burn it again, when all She needs to fulfill the Scripture is the energy it takes to unburn the water in the first place.

The easiest way for said Deity to do this is to put something in the water that would provide the energy for the fire. Oil would work fine, as well as some living plant or animal may do the trick. There are also deposite of Methane that bubble up from time to time that could prove flammible.

Of course being a Deity, I expect that She would be able to do magic (i.e. act outside of the realm of science) meaning she could just call fire into existance in defiance of the rules of science.

I feel strongly that religion and science both have a place-- they shouldn't be mixed. Any discussion that involves religion doesn't need to, and usually can't follow science.

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Quote:

I feel strongly that religion and science both have a place-- they shouldn't be mixed. Any discussion that involves religion doesn't need to, and usually can't follow science.

Amen.

Religion = faith
Science = empirical data

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navigator wrote:

Hi ebrown_p . For people who believe in the hereafter; isn't this

mentioned in some holy books that seas will burst in fire? I suppose that

What does this have to do with hydrolysis ?
Where did the religion angle come from all of a sudden ?

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How much hydrogen can be produced using this method? Or probably more correctly, what's the comparison between the amount of energy the produced hydrogen is capable of releasing compared to the amount of energy put in the produce it (separate it from the water)?

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ebrown_p wrote:

Sorry, but this doesn't make much sense and it doesn't help to explain the Scripture.

Water is what you get when you burn hydrogen. When you separate water into hydrogen and oxygen you are essentially unburning it. The amount of energy you get from burning water is the exact amount of energy you have to put into the water to separate (unburn) itt.

The energy from burning hydrogen would be in the form of the light and heat (and sound) that would represent the fire in this scripture.

But the question is why a Deity would go through this process of unburning the water only to burn it again, when all She needs to fulfill the Scripture is the energy it takes to unburn the water in the first place.

The easiest way for said Deity to do this is to put something in the water that would provide the energy for the fire. Oil would work fine, as well as some living plant or animal may do the trick. There are also deposite of Methane that bubble up from time to time that could prove flammible.

That explains a lot, thanks. It's true that we shouldn't mix religion with

science. The question is; can we explain everything in this life according

to science ? without super nature thing. I mean sometimes things happen

that mind or science couldn't explain and there will be the faith or religion

part to explain it

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Hi Heliotrope, I thought the cause of this fire is the breaking of the water

bond as the hydrogen is highly flammable.

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I firmly of the opinion that the only reason that science can't explain everything is because science hasn't reached that level yet, and that one day it will. And that assigning that which is currently unexplained to a supernatural deity is very immature.

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Quote:

I firmly of the opinion that the only reason that science can't explain everything is because science hasn't reached that level yet, and that one day it will. And that assigning that which is currently unexplained to a supernatural deity is very immature.

Hmm, I don't agree. "Knowing everything" is a metaphysical concept. Science only deals with our observation and does not deal with metaphysical concepts.

A German philosopher Kant believed that there is a "noumena"(the world in itself) and "phenomena"(the world as it can be observed) and that we can't know the Noumena. Whether you agree with this statement or not (I don't), I think he makes a strong argument when he said that science is studying "phenomena."

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200 years ago atoms were "noumena".

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That's sort of true... Forget this noumena phenomena stuff, it's philosophy...

In particle physics:

* Atoms were considered to be the most indivisable particles.

** Then we also have subatomic particles that make up the atom:
- electrons, protons, neutrons.

** Now we also have:
- quarks (cool names)
- leptons ( group that includes electrons, neutrinos, etc)
- particles of interactions

I think this is right... ebrown?

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I think the last chemistry text I read said that there are something like a hundred sub atomic particles. We didn't study them at all in first year chemistry. I really wish I could have stayed in science and studied more of that stuff.

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Ray wrote:

That's sort of true... Forget this noumena phenomena stuff, it's philosophy...

In particle physics:

* Atoms were considered to be the most indivisable particles.

** Then we also have subatomic particles that make up the atom:
- electrons, protons, neutrons.

** Now we also have:
- quarks (cool names)
- leptons ( group that includes electrons, neutrinos, etc)
- particles of interactions

I think this is right... ebrown?

Sure.

The things I am talking about, that I hope will forever be outside the realm of science, are the core of human existance.

Love, Morality, Beauty, Truth, Ideals, Sadness and Passion.

All of these things kind of have a scientific explanation (if you are cold enough to reduce love to a set of electrochemical reactions) but there is also a truth in the experience that transcends science.

Morality can be reduced to a set of evolutionary impulses that we developed through chemical reactions and natural selection--- but if you accept that this implies there is nothing inherantly wrong with killing children-- except that it contradicts our evolutionary programming we developed to ensure genetic survival.

It may be an article of faith-- but I must believe that there are many things that are forever outside the realm of science.

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Quote:

All of these things kind of have a scientific explanation (if you are cold enough to reduce love to a set of electrochemical reactions) but there is also a truth in the experience that transcends science.

I agree eBrown and I don't think it's an article of faith.

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