Americans' Feel Close Circle Of Friends Shrinking

Chai, that pretty well describes me, too.

Ice cream makes you fart too?

Quite resonant with me were nimh's points about the moving away from street life toward mcmansionizing. This was happening before mcmansions, but that kind of caps it off.

When I was a kid, we were not brought hither and yon to a lot of play and lesson experiences. We hung out with each other outside. Some of the change is good, children learn about more activities, and some is problematic, as there may be, sometimes, some loss of creative play. But it wasn't just kids outside then, more people sat on front stoops, sat on porches, etc. still facing the street. I've ranted on about town squares/piazzas before, so you can fill in the blanks on what I'd say on all that... which is, more.. especially more small spots where people can get ice cream, the newspaper if they will still exist, walk the dog to..

as to friendship, it's true that to have a friend you have to run across the person in your life first. Which is why some level of not going around just zoned out in your own mind helps.

At the same time I'm for more sidewalk interaction, walking, talking, and so on, I am also a signator of the group that says they are happy in solitude.... which is damn handy, since I don't have that many friends in New Mexico.

On work being in the way of socializing, making friends, I dunno. I have friends still from different times in my life, from childhood, from school, from entirely different jobs. There is extra effort to keep in touch as we all age and few still live and work where they used to... but when we do phone or email, we're just as straightforward as we were before. I think some of that is how the friendships formed in the first place, if we talked back then on other than surface issues...

Not last time I checked.

Interesting word.

Thats not what I was talking about, though.

I also like being alone. Even though I've been starved for more contacts here, especially lately, I still said "no" to an SMS asking to go to a concert at 6 tonight, because I was also already going to the museumnight from 8 on, and I just cant / dont want to cope with an overload of people around me for too long a time on end. I too "like my solitude", as djjd put it, I too need my time alone.

But - thats something else from keeping "moving on" from experiences, people, in life and in so doing not building up a reliable social network that will simply be there. Also when things not going so great.

Who's going to be there for you, once you've finished moving on, and you fall sick? Become old and dependent? Only your Significant Other - if even (s)he? Thats the part I was talking about scaring me.

Its all fine and dandy being able to be "complete and at home in onself" if you're 35 or 45, in good health, with a job and/or a spouse -- I'm scared of ending up without any friends I havent "moved on" from when all's said and done, and I'm not that age anymore, and dont have my health, job and/or spouse anymore. You know?

Well....I guess it my first sentence that described my feelings.

I really not scared at all of being alone. It just simply doesn't frighten me.

Like I said before, I do have 2 or 3 special people in my life...they are ones that have been there, let's see...30 years and 21 years.

I know my husband will most likely die before me. He's 12 years older, and does have health issues. Believe me I am well aware of that fact.

If you became, along with age, ill...do you think the people you are calling your friends today are going to come around and clean you and change your dressings? No, because if you're in the same age range they will be in the same boat.

Ha, as a matter of fact, one of the above people is gay, has no children, no intention of adopting, and the other had a baby that only lived a couple of days....at the same time, she had caner, and the radiation treatments made her sterile.

I guess the 3 of us can all move in together.

In my dottage, if people were coming in and out of my house to assist me, I'd be fine with that....but I'm not going to be the type that says "oh, please please stay awhile longer."

I've worked with a lot of geriatrics, and believe it or not, a lot of them are fine socializing, but unless they are suffering from depression, most of them feel they lived a good live and are fine with being older. It's just acceptance of where you are in life, and I intend to be accepting.

I think this is the key factor and other European friends who have spent considerable time with Americans note that in the US, there is more mobility between cities/states and therefore friends are made more quickly but cannot have the same "depth" as the people with whom we've grown up.

I can instantly name a core of about 8 friends who are in London (mainly formed during university days and immediately afterwards) and we've spent years of hanging out with each other.

I won't tell every one every thing about my life (my brother gets that) but each of them know me well enough that if I had a problem to discuss, they would know my history and character from years of personal experience.

That's difficult to replicate if you move locations and I'm missing them while I'm living abroad...so, in fact, I go "home" quite often.

KP

Reading on, I have been reminded of what an American friend told me about her experience when she moved to London.

Her English colleagues would never invite her to do something with them on the weekend and (as a natural extrovert) she asked them about this.

Their reaction was that it would be considered an imposition to ask someone from work to do weekend activities together, as it was expected that each had their "own life" and would not want the additional burden of the invitation.

I can completely understand their perspective, as I have formed very few friendships of note from among my colleagues (even though I've been working for the same organisation for nearly 12 years) as I had most of my spare time filled with "real" friends already by the time I started work.

I can say that one ex-colleague I see regularly and one less so (but he's part of the Fantasy Football group and I'll see him through football-related things from time to time).

KP

Interesting about the English perspective on socializing with co-workers.

One other thing I thought of (while I was out doing something, then checked A2K and kitchenpete's reply kind of ties in to it too) is that all of this mobility and consumerism ties into another idea, that Reyn and Chai have touched on, the pure inconvenience of establishing and maintaining friendships.

What brought it to mind was thinking about the housing co-op I lived in for a few years -- I've spoken of it here often. More than 30 people in one (very large) house, and very little privacy. At the time, the lack of privacy and general inconvenience (I'd go down to the kitchen to get a snack while in the middle of studying for a major exam and get caught up in some huge personal drama that would gobble the next several hours) often drove me (and E.G., who I met there) absolutely batty. But it was also a time full of rich personal relationships. There is a lot I miss, looking back on it.

I think there is something worthwhile about being forced to deal with people who might not fit your profile of an ideal friend. That unlikely (but quite valuable) friendships might arise from such circumstances. And I think that as we retreat further into privacy and control over how we spend our time, such circumstances occur less and less.

<nodding>

That's were workplace "friendships" come in.

That's the place that I would be "forced to deal with people that don't fit my profile as an ideal friend. Frankly that's about all the socialization I need.

Maybe it's a combination of things...I'm an introvert, plus, I'm older than both Soz and Nimh (just to name a few) and honestly...I feel I'm at a time in my life where I've paid my dues of being forced to be with anyone for any amount of time that doesn't click with me...Work is different of course.

Your last sentence about how as we retreat more and more into our privacy, that kind of situation arises less and less.....to that I say "Thank God"

The only group situation I've ever lived in would be the dorms in college...I absolutely hated it.

Nimh - I don't want to give you the impression I've floated aimlessly through life. It's more like some people just need that interaction, others simply don't.

I think Chai is correct when she says that some people need fewer social contacts than others.

Some babies pop out of the womb ready to interact with the delivery team and other babies are horrified at a room full of strangers.

Oh, I agree, I think there is a spectrum.

I still think that "It's more like some people just need that interaction, others simply don't" is a false dichotomy, though. I think it's more like "some people need interaction, some people don't, and some people don't need it but enjoy it when the opportunity presents itself."

I have spent a great deal of time by myself, and will often seek it out at the expense of personal interaction. I also enjoy personal interaction -- and frequently when I am thrust into a social situation that I didn't choose, find myself enjoying myself more than I expected to.

I made a sign for my room when I was a teenager ordering myself to get out. Given the choice, I'd nearly always choose to spend time reading a book or on a solo bikeride or otherwise on my own; but when I actually did go out, I had fun.

I'm very glad that I have the ability to enjoy my solitude, as I've had plenty of cause to use that skill. However, the (long-winded) point I'm making is that it coexists with the ability to enjoy myself with people -- it doesn't have to be either/ or.

I'm definitely one of those whose inner instinct is to lock himself in his room and just be himself -- but who finds that when reality forces him into communication and interaction, the most beautiful things happen. So for people like me an evolutionary decrease of those kinds of situations - of public space - is definitely bad.

Eg, when I have a choice, I tend to instinctively go to the anonymous supermarket - less hassle. But when I have to rely on the neighbourhood shop where the owner always has something to say, I come home happier.

In the 1950s, Phillip Wylie used to write about overpopulation. He said, in The Magic Animal, I think, that it would be desireable for humans to live, about one family per fifty square miles. He mentioned that people would then be happy to encounter one another, and wars would no longer seem necessary.

Interesting.

Happiness research (there is apparently actually such a field) seems to indicate that people would be less happy in that situation than Wylie would imagine, though -- having close friendships (I don't remember how many, just the existence of them) have been shown to be a leading indicator of both happiness and health.