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Guantanamo suicides confirmed

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jun, 2006 05:20 am
72 Percent of Americans Participate in Outdoor Recreation - you certainly remember all the questions they asked you, don't you?

But I would be more interested in your answers about ethanasia since there a 69-27 percent margin of all Americans backed it. (Gallup poll).

<looking>
0 Replies
 
detano inipo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jun, 2006 06:19 am
mysteryman, according to your theory there is not a single valid poll in human history. No poll ever asks all people, so no poll is correct.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 01:35 am
http://i4.tinypic.com/15geb5v.jpg

Quote:
The battle to close Guantánamo

President Bush clearly wants out of a programme that brought international scorn, but shutting the camp poses legal and practical problems


Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Saturday June 24, 2006
The Guardian


On January 10 2002, a US military cargo plane landed at a US naval base in southeastern Cuba after a 27-hour flight from Afghanistan with 20 men aboard, shackled, handcuffed and blinded by blacked-out safety goggles. They were the first captives of the war on terror - "the worst of the worst", US military officials said. Their arrival in Guantánamo Bay founded a prison regime that has been condemned around the world - and that now, four years on, could be on the verge of closure. More than 750 inmates have passed through the steel mesh cages since the Bush administration decided to establish an offshore prison that would be beyond the reach of the US constitution and international law, where inmates would be subjected to open-ended interrogation and tried before military tribunals without the protection of the Geneva convention.

[...]

So far, the process of repatriating prisoners has been painfully slow, say detainee lawyers. In part, countries are nervous about taking back prisoners whom the US has labelled dangerous terrorists. They are also frustrated with the stonewalling of US military officials when asked for evidence of links to al-Qaida. But the host countries may also see America's eagerness to rid itself of Guantánamo as a bargaining opportunity. Some of the prisoners are citizens of countries where torture is routine. If they return home carrying the stigma of Guantánamo, their lives could be in danger. America has indicated it will not take any of the detainees - even those it admits are innocent.

European countries also appear unwilling. It took the US authorities nearly two and a half years to find a safe haven for five entirely innocent Chinese Muslims it had been holding at Guantánamo. The men were finally released last month in Albania. Human rights activists foresee similar problems for Libyans.

If they are to be brought to trial, in what court? It is highly unlikely that, after years of resistance, the administration would support trials of the Guantánamo detainees in US courts. "They have tied both hands behind their back by holding them there, because it rendered everything they have said inadmissible in a US court," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.

It may allow them to be tried before military courts under rules set down by US military law and in compliance with the Geneva convention, but - given Guantánamo's history - those may not be seen as legitimate by other countries, said Clive Stafford Smith, who represents a Moroccan detainee.


http://i5.tinypic.com/15gebdu.jpg
But if Guantánamo does close, what then? Over the last few years, America has moved its detention centres in the war on terror even further offshore to Poland and Romania, as well as to other secret locations where some 30 high-level al-Qaida prisoners are believed to be held. Closing Guantánamo will not bring those detainees closer to a courtroom, or spare them from possible abuse. "They want to shut it down so they can create hundreds of small Guantánamo Bays that will not attract attention or serve as such a symbol," said Jonathan Turley, a law professor at George Washington University. "The president has not said he wants to stop the policies that created it ... there is no indication the administration wants to comply with domestic or international law in the treatment of detainees."


source: The Guardian,24 June 2006, page 6, online report
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 01:59 am
I am very much afraid that you have not kept up with the latest news, Mr. Walter Hinteler. President Bush and his Administration will NOT make the final decision as to whether Guantanamo will close. That decision, since the US is devoted to the "rule of law" and when questions arise about government actions which some say may be unconstitutional, the matter is referred to the Supreme Court.

Is Bush Signaling an About-Face on Detainees?

By Tony Mauro
Legal Times
June 16, 2006

It's rare for a president to comment on a pending Supreme Court case. But President George W. Bush has been doing just that in recent weeks, referring to the Hamdan v. Rumsfeld case that will decide the fate of military commissions he ordered to handle detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Bush's remarks and tone have confounded observers, leaving some wondering if he is trying to soften the blow of an expected defeat -- or already preparing the public for civilian alternatives to military commissions.


The USSC will adjudicate. Left wing newspapers may, of course, comment on the matter but the USSC's decision will be definitive?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 02:11 am
I am very much afraid that you have not kept up with the latest news, Mr. Whateveryourname, that you don't follow the international news ... and the calendar: today is Saturday, June 24 (in most parts of the worls, at least), and not June 16, 2006.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 02:29 am
Mr. Walter Hinteler. I am obliged to inform you that, The Guardian, a notorious Socialistic British Paper knows almost nothing about what is really going on in the USA. You will notice that the writer said NOTHING about the fact that the Guantanimo Matter will be settled in the US Supreme Court. Saying such a thing would dampen her attempt at "demonization" of the Bush Administration.

AGAIN, as I stated in my post--The matter is in the hands of the USSC. That seems to be too difficult for the Left wing Socialist Guardian rag to understand!!!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 02:32 am
BernardR wrote:
Mr. Walter Hinteler. I am obliged to inform you that, The Guardian, a notorious Socialistic British Paper knows almost nothing about what is really going on in the USA. You will notice that the writer said NOTHING about the fact that the Guantanimo Matter will be settled in the US Supreme Court. Saying such a thing would dampen her attempt at "demonization" of the Bush Administration.

AGAIN, as I stated in my post--The matter is in the hands of the USSC. That seems to be too difficult for the Left wing Socialist Guardian rag to understand!!!


The Giardian socialistic - thanks again for giving me a loud laugh and thus an enjoyable Saturday.
You are such a humorous person, Bernhard, it's always great fun to follow your pesters.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 06:17 am
BernardR wrote:
Mr. Walter Hinteler. I am obliged to inform you that, The Guardian, a notorious Socialistic British Paper ...
Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 06:25 am
He's funny, isn't he?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 06:27 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
He's funny, isn't he?
yes his first line of address always cracks me up..I read no further.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 04:59 pm
BernardR wrote:
I am very much afraid that you have not kept up with the latest news, Mr. Walter Hinteler. President Bush and his Administration will NOT make the final decision as to whether Guantanamo will close. That decision, since the US is devoted to the "rule of law" and when questions arise about government actions which some say may be unconstitutional, the matter is referred to the Supreme Court.


I'm pretty sure that the Supreme Court is only considering the matter of trial standards for those Guantanamo detainees who are prosecuted for crimes.

I've not read anything that said they were considering whether the facility should close.

If they did make a ruling requiring the facility to close, it would clearly be illegitimate, as we have the right to hold captured enemy soldiers until the end of the war.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 05:13 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
The battle to close Guantánamo

President Bush clearly wants out of a programme that brought international scorn, but shutting the camp poses legal and practical problems


Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Saturday June 24, 2006
The Guardian

[...]

If they are to be brought to trial, in what court? It is highly unlikely that, after years of resistance, the administration would support trials of the Guantánamo detainees in US courts. "They have tied both hands behind their back by holding them there, because it rendered everything they have said inadmissible in a US court," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.

It may allow them to be tried before military courts under rules set down by US military law and in compliance with the Geneva convention, but - given Guantánamo's history - those may not be seen as legitimate by other countries, said Clive Stafford Smith, who represents a Moroccan detainee.

[...]

source: The Guardian,24 June 2006, page 6, online report


I can't see trying them in civilian courts. That would be unheard of.

The thing about trying them "before military courts under rules set down by US military law and in compliance with the Geneva convention" is the correct answer, in my opinion.

I'm not sure why that would be seen as illegitimate by other countries, but then I'm not sure why holding them at Guantanamo is seen as illegitimate.



Quote:
"They want to shut it down so they can create hundreds of small Guantánamo Bays that will not attract attention or serve as such a symbol," said Jonathan Turley, a law professor at George Washington University. "The president has not said he wants to stop the policies that created it ... there is no indication the administration wants to comply with domestic or international law in the treatment of detainees."


Well, so long as people refuse to accept our right to hold captured enemy soldiers until war's end, holding them in secret facilities might be the answer.

As for complying with the law regarding their treatment, that is a valid concern. I don't understand why all the fuss calling for us to close the place is not instead calling for us to treat them properly.
0 Replies
 
detano inipo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 05:49 pm
Do you people know what it means to be locked up for a year or two or three? These prisoners are not files of legal papers, they are human beings. .
.
What would happen if a few hundred US soldiers would be kept in some remote Muslim camp under the same conditions. The wailing and gnashing of teeth would be deafening.
.
Some of the Gitmo prisoners may be guilty of something. Holding them until the artificial 'war on terror' is over means they all will die there of old age.
'
To argue finer legal points and forget that these are humans is heart breaking. Terrorists who are proven to be guilty before a court, should be punished. If necessary by firing squads.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 11:12 pm
Mr. Oralloy and Mr. Detano:
Please note: this is from the legal times---
Is Bush Signaling an About-Face on Detainees?

By Tony Mauro
Legal Times
June 16, 2006

It's rare for a president to comment on a pending Supreme Court case. But President George W. Bush has been doing just that in recent weeks, referring to the Hamdan v. Rumsfeld case that will decide the fate of military commissions he ordered to handle detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Bush's remarks and tone have confounded observers, leaving some wondering if he is trying to soften the blow of an expected defeat -- or already preparing the public for civilian alternatives to military commissions.


The USSC will adjudicate. Left wing newspapers may, of course, comment on the matter but the USSC's decision will be definitive?


Now, whether the USSC will comment only on procedures to be used or whether it adjudicates that the base should be closed( unlikely) the decision will be definitive.

Mr. Detano need not wring his hands and worry so much. I know that some of the prisoners who, after all, have prayer rugs, Muslim Food, and Prayer time, are "suffering" after all those years, but I am sure that they would not wish to be judged under the much more efficient Islamo-Fascist fanatic system which holds a prisoner for two weeks and then decapitates him.

They don't suffer for long, do they, Mr. Detano?

The USSC will decide. The USA runs under the Rule of Law.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 11:19 pm
Mr. Walter Hinteler- who shows again and again that he knows very little about the USA said that the Guardian was not Socialistic. No the Guardian is really a good paper!!!! In reality, it is a snot rag which does not belong in civilized society.

When Mr. Walter Hinteler finds an article like the one below in a MAJOR AMERICAN PAPER, I ask him to print it----
QUOTE
UK's Guardian Outrage: Bush Should Be Shot!?!?

Guardian writer asks, "Booth ... Oswald ... Hinckley ... Where are you now that we need you?"

- October 24, 2004 -




Props to the Drudge Report.

In an abominable October 23, 2004, attack on President Bush, Charlie Brooker of England's Guardian newspaper, wrote,

He [Bush] blinks, he mumbles, he lets a sentence trail off, starts a new one, then reverts back to whatever he was saying in the first place. Each time he recalls a statistic (either from memory or the voice in his head), he flashes us a dumb little smile, like a toddler proudly showing off its first bowel movement. Forgive me for employing the language of the playground, but the man's a tool ...

On November 2, the entire civilised world will be praying, praying Bush loses. And Sod's law dictates he'll probably win, thereby disproving the existence of God once and for all. The world will endure four more years of idiocy, arrogance and unwarranted bloodshed, with no benevolent deity to watch over and save us. John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, John Hinckley Jr. - where are you now that we need you? (bold, emphasis added)

End of Quote

Only despicable morons could write such a thing and you, Mr. Hinteler defend the paper which has despicable morons working in it.

And you still think it is a balanced and objective newspaper???????
0 Replies
 
detano inipo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jun, 2006 02:47 pm
Amnesty International does not agree with Bush and his sympathizers. Torture is not pretty, making funny remarks about it shows lack of understanding.
.
I prefer to believe AI, we all know that Bush is not a good source of information.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510072006
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jun, 2006 02:50 pm
So- the New York Times is also a snot rag because it has printed scathing articles about Bush? Funny, isn't that where the infamous 9/11 -' the day that changed the world; Rolling Eyes happened? Terrorism didn't start on 9/11, but that is another story. It is the duty of newspapers to write articles that may not always agree with the current asinine administration of the US.

Anything that goes against Americans false view of the world is moronic?

America thinks it is above the law and doesn't care what world opinion is. You want to be isolationist? Then don't ask other countries to fight your dirty little so-called 'war', which is actually about the RIGHT of Middle Eastern countries to trade oil $ in euros rather than US dollars.

The Guardian makes much more sense than does Bush & his supporters, which is now down to below 38%. Only another moron could understand what his babblings mean.

And Detano - you're absolutely correct. If Americans were thrown into cells without legal representation in another country, can't you just imagine the whining?? Either try them and find them guilty, or let them go.

America is going backwards into the Dark Ages. Like the singer Ice Cube says: .....'Since I was little, ain't a goddamn thing changed, it's the same ol' same, Bush run **** like Saddam Hussein......Call me an animal up in the system - but who's the animal that built this prison'?

Yeah.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jun, 2006 04:34 pm
pachelbel- Do you deny that the Guardian writer wrote the following for publication?





Props to the Drudge Report.

In an abominable October 23, 2004, attack on President Bush, Charlie Brooker of England's Guardian newspaper, wrote,

He [Bush] blinks, he mumbles, he lets a sentence trail off, starts a new one, then reverts back to whatever he was saying in the first place. Each time he recalls a statistic (either from memory or the voice in his head), he flashes us a dumb little smile, like a toddler proudly showing off its first bowel movement. Forgive me for employing the language of the playground, but the man's a tool ...

On November 2, the entire civilised world will be praying, praying Bush loses. And Sod's law dictates he'll probably win, thereby disproving the existence of God once and for all. The world will endure four more years of idiocy, arrogance and unwarranted bloodshed, with no benevolent deity to watch over and save us. John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, John Hinckley Jr. - where are you now that we need you? (bold, emphasis added)


I am sure that you realize that this is a message that could lead kooks to try to assassinate the President!

Are you in favor of such a move?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jun, 2006 06:01 pm
detano inipo wrote:

What would happen if a few hundred US soldiers would be kept in some remote Muslim camp under the same conditions. The wailing and gnashing of teeth would be deafening.


Well, as our soldiers are lawful combatants, it is illegal to hold them incommunicado.

However, holding them in the same conditions as Guantanamo would be a refreshing step in the right direction compared to the way they are normally mistreated when captured.



detano inipo wrote:

Some of the Gitmo prisoners may be guilty of something.


Yes. Those who attacked US soldiers are guilty of attempted murder.

Those who killed US soldiers are guilty of murder.



detano inipo wrote:
Holding them until the artificial 'war on terror' is over means they all will die there of old age.


The war is hardly artificial.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jun, 2006 06:08 pm
pachelbel wrote:
Either try them and find them guilty, or let them go.


International law says we can hold captured enemy fighters until the end of the war. Deal with it.
0 Replies
 
 

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