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Guantanamo suicides confirmed

 
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 02:06 am
Meet John Stockwell

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.htm

John R. Stockwell is a former CIA agent who became a critic of United States government policies after serving in the Agency for twelve years serving seven tours of duty. As Station Chief of the Angola Task Force during its 1975 covert operations, he is the highest-ranking CIA agent to ever leave the agency and go public.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stockwell

John Stockwell is a 13-year veteran of the CIA and a former U.S. Marine Corps major. He was hired by the CIA in 1964, spent six years working for the CIA in Africa, and was later transferred to Vietnam. In 1973 he received the CIA's Medal of Merit, the Agency's second-highest award. In 1975, Stockwell was promoted to the CIA's Chief of Station and National Security Council coordinator, managing covert activities during the first years of Angola's bloody civil war. After two years he resigned, determined to reveal the truth about the agency's role in the Third World. Since that time, he has worked tirelessly to expose the criminal activities of the CIA. He is the author of In Search of Enemies, an exposé of the CIA's covert action in Angola.

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/stock1.html

Hey look! A torture and terror college. It's called the School of the Americas.

http://www.soaw.org/new/type.php?type=8

Freedom and Democracy are on the march. We have been training for Iraq for a long time.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 02:34 am
Amigo wrote:
Hey look! A torture and terror college. It's called the School of the Americas.


That is a place to train guerrilla fighters.

If the people who we train go on to abuse their training and engage in terrorism, that isn't our doing.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 02:47 am
oralloy wrote:
Amigo wrote:
Don't forget he put "professor" in quotations to insinuate he is not really a professor.


Based on the wikipedia link, I withdraw the quotes.

I had figured he was one of those "professors of peace studies" that sometimes crop up at lesser universities.

He is still a kook for seeing a CIA conspiracy in everything however.


Thank you!
A lot of the unpleasantness yesterday wouldn't have happened if you'd simply checked your facts earlier, rather than going on & on as if you had established a case. (The "other" fellow didn't help matters, either! Rolling Eyes )
So now the professor's a "kook" because he sees the role of the CIA differently to you? I don't think he was suggesting that there's a CIA conspiracy "everywhere", though god knows, there have been quite a few.<sigh>
Thanks, Amigo, for at least trying to support what I was trying to establish, though you did go a bit over the top in your support.
0 Replies
 
detano inipo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 05:48 am
http://www.factcheck.org/article365.html
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 06:21 am
Thank you for posting that report, detano inipo.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 06:23 am
Quote:
Journalists Forced Off Guantanamo

The four were covering the suicides at the island prison. The Pentagon, citing other requests for access, says it's only fair.

Editors at the Los Angeles Times and two other newspapers protested the Pentagon decision to expel their reporters Wednesday from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where the journalists were reporting on the weekend suicides of three prisoners.

Journalists from The Times, the Miami Herald and the Charlotte (N.C.) Observer had received permission from the prison's commander to be at the U.S. facility, where terrorism suspects are held and interrogated. The three reporters and an Observer photographer left the island Wednesday on orders from the Pentagon.

A civilian spokeswoman at the Pentagon said the reporters had to leave because at least five other news outlets wanted to cover the suicides but did not get permission from Guantanamo commanders.

"The Defense Department wants to be fair and impartial," said spokeswoman Cynthia Smith. "We got them on the next flight out of Guantanamo Bay to be fair to the rest of the media outlets that did not get a chance to go down there."

Smith said the reporters could not all be granted access to the prison because Guantanamo military personnel were preoccupied with investigating the suicides and enhancing security, and would not have had time to supervise more journalists. She said the other journalists worked for Reuters, the Associated Press, CNN and two British newspapers.

Source and full story
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 06:34 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
"The Defense Department wants to be fair and impartial," said spokeswoman Cynthia Smith. "We got them on the next flight out of Guantanamo Bay to be fair to the rest of the media outlets that did not get a chance to go down there."


Can't get much more "fair & impartial" than that, can you?
So no one got to properly cover the story. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 06:47 am
Well, it would be unfair, if only a few journalists were there and not all - same happened when the war in Iraq started, those embedded journalists included - fair and impartial - every paper, angency and media from everywhere.

You certainly remember.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 07:17 am
You do, indeed, Walter.
0 Replies
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 07:52 am
Quote:
...Professor McCoy says Guantanamo Bay is an ad hoc laboratory used to perfect CIA psychological torture methods. ....


That's his opinion. He also 'says' Hicks is a victim of psychological torture, although he hasn't actually examined Hicks, nor does he claim he knows anyone who has examined Hicks. It's merely his 'guess'.

Ward Churchill is also a 'professor'. He's also a kook and a liar.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jun, 2006 12:01 am
oralloy wrote:
Amigo wrote:
Hey look! A torture and terror college. It's called the School of the Americas.


That is a place to train guerrilla fighters.

If the people who we train go on to abuse their training and engage in terrorism, that isn't our doing.
They are specifically trained in terror and torture to secure resources & labour for American corporations.

In Iraq we are currently engaged in what is called the "El Salvador option" named after the same terror and torture we used in El Salvador in the 1980 under Reagan. Search "El Salvador Option".

The war is not about freedom, democracy or liberation. Those are just words we abuse to invade other countries. The war is about resources and the expansion of empire. The nature of our empire is the same as the nature of any empire in history.

Americans just can't except it because it has been done behind their backs and they can't handle the truth.

Alfred W. McCoy,
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jun, 2006 12:17 am
Sierra Song- I am sure that it is obvious to you that the only reason that the whiners and moaners about Gitmo are raising clouds of dust because of politics. I don't think they give two cents about the prisoners at Gitmo.

Here is my stance, Sierra Song. These people know nothing about the laws of the USA. The United States Supreme Court will adjudicate the status of GITMO this month. If they rule that it should be closed or that each of the prisoners, who, after all, are the enemy and not American Citizens, must have a lawyer who will defend them under American Court rules, then that will settle the case. I, for one, who believe in the rule of law, will accept that ruling.

However, if the USSC finds that the activities at Gitmo are, on the whole, feasible under our system of government, that will end the discussion and the whiners and moaners will have to find another subject with which to try to denigrate President Bush and his Administration!
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jun, 2006 06:45 pm
BernardR wrote:
Here is my stance, Sierra Song. These people know nothing about the laws of the USA. The United States Supreme Court will adjudicate the status of GITMO this month. If they rule that it should be closed or that each of the prisoners, who, after all, are the enemy and not American Citizens, must have a lawyer who will defend them under American Court rules, then that will settle the case. I, for one, who believe in the rule of law, will accept that ruling.


My belief in the rule of law leads me to reject court rulings that are contrary to the law.

Should they say that we have to try enemy soldiers in civilian courts, I intend to use my Free Speech rights to proclaim that the ruling is completely bogus everywhere I go.

Should they rule that we have to close Guantanamo, I will do the same. In addition, I will provide moral support to the President if he chooses to ignore their ruling and keep the facility open.


I think a more likely ruling, though, would be to require that the enemy soldiers be tried in front of regular courts martial. That would be a fair ruling that I would support.
0 Replies
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jun, 2006 10:47 pm
Would be interesting if the split is 4-4.

From what I've read on the oral arguments, more likely 5-3 in favor of Hamdan.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jun, 2006 11:09 pm
It does not appear that Hamdan will win the case.

Note:

http://www.aie.org/events/eventID.1280,filter.all


Quote


Military Tribunals on Trial: Hamdan v. Rumsfeld

On March 28, the Supreme Court took up the case of Hamdan v. Rumsfeld to determine the permissibility of the Bush administration's plan to use military tribunals to try senior al Qaeda leaders. In 2004, D.C. Court judge James Robertson ruled that the proposed military tribunals violated international law, a decision subsequently overturned in 2005 by the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. What are the legal issues being contested in the case? How is the Supreme Court likely to rule? Are the military tribunals of enemy combatants consistent with U.S. obligations under the Geneva Conventions? What will the implications of the ruling be for the Bush administration's legal theory of the global war on terror? Bradford Berenson and Daniel Collins, who filed a brief with the Supreme Court on behalf of Citizens for the Common Defense, met to discuss these issues at a March 23 AEI panel discussion.

Bradford Berenson
Sidley Austin LLP

On November 13, 2001, President Bush issued a military order authorizing military tribunals to try war criminals associated with al Qaeda. Mr. Berenson worked at the White House as associate counsel at the time so was able to share firsthand knowledge about the process and policy considerations.

The genesis of the order was the attacks of September 11, 2001. It became clear that the United States would take custody of al Qaeda soldiers and needed a way to handle them. The policy needed to be decided with urgency, as the United States was already at war with al Qaeda. The White House found an answer rooted in the laws of war for unlawful combatants: war crimes charges could be brought through military tribunals.

Mr. Berenson argued that there were several important advantages that military tribunals hold over civil trials. First, that military tribunals ensure the physical security of the courtroom and the safety of the judges and jurors. Second, military tribunals can be faster and more efficient than civil trials and can be located outside of the United States if necessary. Third, military tribunals are much more apt in handling and protecting classified information that inevitably arises in war trials. Finally, and most importantly, military tribunals have more flexible rules with regard to evidence, allowing heresy and testimony acquired by coercion. The White House concluded that the option to try unlawful combatants by military tribunal was an important tool for the president to have in the war on terror. At the time, Mr. Berenson and the White House counsel anticipated that the decision would eventually be considered by the Supreme Court.

Mr. Berenson felt optimistic that the government would prevail in the Hamdan case.

Daniel Collins
Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP

Salim Ahmed Hamdan was Osama bin Ladin's personal driver, even after the attacks of September 11, 2001. Mr. Collins argues that this makes Mr. Hamdan an ideal candidate for trial by military tribunal. The Supreme Court case on March 28, 2006, considers whether the president had the Constitutional power to issue an order establishing military tribunals in general, to issue such an order in this particular conflict, and to order a tribunal for Mr. Hamdan. Mr. Collins argued that the president did not need Congressional approval for his November 13 order. There is precedence in the United States for such presidential power: in 1780, the traitor Benedict Arnold was brought by President George Washington in front of a "board of general officers" for his war crimes. Such tribunals were widely used during the Civil War, the Spanish American War, and most famously, during World War II for the eight Nazi dissidents who plotted an attack on American soil.

Mr. Hamdan argues that his crime of conspiracy is not eligible to be tried by military tribunal. Further, he claims that the United States' tribunal procedures are not valid. He also argues that the protections of the Geneva Convention should be applied or that Mr. Hamdan should not be held liable by its rules for combat. Finally, he claims status as a prisoner of war; such prisoners cannot be tried by military tribunal. Mr. Collins rejects most of these claims, siding with the government's arguments that it has the precedent and presidential power to establish such tribunals and that Mr. Hamdan's crimes qualify him to be tried. Mr. Collins and Mr. Berenson jointly filed an amicus brief in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld in which they outline the history of presidential use of military tribunals, hoping to establish precedent for the Court to support President Bush's actions.

In the Hamdan case, the Supreme Court faces a wide variety of issues. Mr. Collins thought it likely that the justices would side with the government, possibly for reasons of jurisdiction.

End of quote


Both Bradford Berenson and Daniel Collins, highly trained attornies, agree that the government's side will prevail and that the US will be allowed to use military tribunals in cases such as Hamdan's.
0 Replies
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jun, 2006 07:03 pm
Either way, I can find comfort in what Justice Scalia said (from Switzerland, no less, heh.)

"I had a son on that battlefield and they were shooting at my son, and I'm not about to give this man who was captured in a war a full jury trial."
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 04:50 am
Quote:
Both Bradford Berenson and Daniel Collins, highly trained attornies, agree that the government's side will prevail and that the US will be allowed to use military tribunals in cases such as Hamdan's.



Thats because the Geneva Convention specifically says that prisoners taken by the military are to be tried ONLY by military tribunals.

Apparently,some of you have not read the GC.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 05:13 am
So here the Genava Convention is used ...

I'm not sure about the "only" in your above response - countries without military courts/tribunals (or even military (special) law like Germany) would either have difficulties then or never could take prisoners.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 05:45 am
mysteryman wrote:
Quote:
Both Bradford Berenson and Daniel Collins, highly trained attornies, agree that the government's side will prevail and that the US will be allowed to use military tribunals in cases such as Hamdan's.



Thats because the Geneva Convention specifically says that prisoners taken by the military are to be tried ONLY by military tribunals.

Apparently,some of you have not read the GC.

Can you show me where the Geneva convention prohibits that prisoners be tried by civilian courts?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jun, 2006 09:17 am
I thought the GC didn't apply to the prisoners at Guantanamo.
0 Replies
 
 

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