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Montenegro votes for independence

 
 
nimh
 
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 06:00 am
Montenegro had its referendum on independence from Serbia this weekend.

Rules agreed between pro-independence government, pro-union opposition and the EU stipulated that independence would require a turnout of minimum 50% and a Yes-vote of minimum 55%.

They wouldnt have needed worry about turnout: it was 86,3%, with thousands of Montenegrins travelling back home especially from Serbia and Western countries - often, apparently, with financial support from the Serbian government and the pro-independence parties, respectively - since it wasnt possible to vote from abroad.

But the vote itself hung on a razorthin margin. When exit polls last night predicted a 56,3% Yes-vote, masses of people went outside to celebrate with flags, fireworks and gunfire. Today, the official result was declared: 55,4% in favour of independence.

Since ethnic Montenegrins, the largest group in the country, are believed to have voted overwhelmingly for independence and the country's Serbs are thought to have voted against en masse, the deciding votes came from the two other minorities of size: Bosniaks and Albanians.

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,630531,00.jpg

Reuters: Montenegro independence vote succeeds - official

The Times: Montenegro splits from Serbia in search of EU membership

Spiegel: Montenegro Turns Away from Serbia
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 06:26 am
Lots of background info in Balkan Insight, the online publication of the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network. Articles are often available in two or three languages.

Past headlines there include:

Montenegro Campaign Ends on High Note
http://www.birn.eu.com/insight_35_1_eng.php

As referendum campaign climaxes, even pop singers have been brought in to swing last undecided voters.
By Nedjeljko Rudovic in Podgorica (Balkan Insight, 18 May 06)


Bribery Allegations Cast Shadow Over Independence Poll
http://www.birn.eu.com/insight_29_1_eng.php

Pro-union opposition says secret footage supports its claims of foul play.
By Nedjeljko Rudovic in Podgorica (Balkan Insight, 6 Apr 06)

Montenegro: Anti-Independence Campaign Kicks Off
http://www.birn.eu.com/insight_29_2_eng.php

Opposition activists go door to door to convince voters that they are better off staying in the state union with Serbia.
By Bojana Stanisic in Podgorica (Balkan Insight, 6 Apr 06)

Agreements Quell Fears of Post-Referendum Unrest
http://www.birn.eu.com/insight_29_3_eng.php

Pro-independence and pro-union parties settle on rules for May's independence vote, with the EU as guarantor.
By Petar Komnenic from Podgorica (Balkan Insight, 6 Apr 06)

Minorities Flex their Political Muscles
http://www.birn.eu.com/insight_29_4_eng.php

Bosnian and Albanian parties in Montenegro are trading on their position as masters of "swing votes" on key issues in order to promote their own agendas.
By Sead Sadikovic in Bijelo Polje (Balkan Insight, 6 Apr 06)

Herceg Novi's Heart Beats for Serbia
http://www.birn.eu.com/insight_29_5_eng.php

An influx of Serb refugees and pensioners has made this ancient resort town a bastion of pro-union feeling.
By Nikola Doncic in Herceg Novi (Balkan Insight, 6 Apr 06)

Dash for Statehood Leaves Some Montenegrins Cold
http://www.birn.eu.com/insight_24_1_eng.php

The independence vote in Montenegro will be unlike any other held in the former Yugoslavia, for here no one can predict the outcome.
By Marcus Tanner in Podgorica (Balkan Insight, 9 Mar 06)

Montenegrins Accept EU Referendum Rules
http://www.birn.eu.com/insight_23_3_eng.php

Brussels-backed proposals ensure that outcome of independence vote will be hard to predict.
By Nedjeljko Rudovic in Podgorica (Balkan Insight, 3 Mar 06)
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 May, 2006 06:40 am
Thanks for starting the thread, nimh!

(I mentioned that earlier on the European Union thread and just could fdelete my additional infos - better, an own thread, I think!)
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 07:30 am
One has to assume that the NWO crowd and George Soros had a hand in this.

Basically, in the eight year reign of terror of the KKKlinton regime, I only saw two groups of people stand up to the beast and try to face it down, that being the Serbs and the Mormons in Utah.

I hate seeing the world go on treating Serbs like a bunch of assholes for that, particularly six years into a republican administration.

For anybody who might have missed it, the Mormons basically told Slick KKKlinton and Janet Reno that if they ever so much as thought about doing anything like Waco or Ruby Ridge (or Kosovo for that matter) in Utah, they'd pull Utah out of the union so fast it would make their heads spin and most likely take ten or twelve western states with them. Utah of course is almost entirely self sufficient and can be sealed tighter than a drum at three or four points; the only thing Slick and Reno could even have tried would have been an assault landing at one of the airports, and the national guard in Utah is entirely Mormon, good luck. The church itself then went out and bought 30 million dollars worth of surplus 308 ammunition (amongst other things) on the international markets to make sure they had the psychopaths' attentions.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 08:53 am
Gunga Din froths at the mouth over anything which appears to him to be critical of the Serbs. That is merely more evidence that he is the most recent version of SWolf, who had the same disease.

Utah has tried to defy the Federal Government before. Albert Sidney Johnston, as commander of the Second United States Cavalry, lead the expedition against the Mormons in the "Second Mormon War," or the Utah Mormon War.

The First Mormon War, or the Missouri Mormon War eruped in and around Jackson County, Missouri. Brigham Young had told his followers that the second coming of Christ would occur soon, and at the City of Zion, which they would found in Jackson County, Missouri. The locals became alarmed at the number of "Latter Day Saints" who were moving in, and they took vigilante action to drive them away in 1833. They moved elsewhere, most to Clay County, and the legislature created Caldwell County to be a new home for the Mormons--thinking to co-opt the threat of violence by pushing the Mormons into a region northeast of Clay and Jackson counties. The Mormon leaders there encouraged their followers to join them in Caldwell County, and asserted that they were now free from persecution. Eventually, Joseph Smith, Jr. was forced to abandon the Mormon headquarters in Ohio, and he went to Missouri. The numbers of Mormons grew to the point that they began to spill out into neighboring counties, and the eventual result was skirmishes with their non-Mormon neighbors which became known as the Mormon War, and was later called the First Mormon War, or the Missouri Mormon War, to distinguish it from the later Mormon War in Utah. After bitter fighting and a massacre of Mormons, the State of Missouri forced the Mormons to sign over their property to defray the state's expenses in calling out the militia.

The Mormons moved to western Illinois, and similar strife arose, in what is sometimes referred to as the Illinois Mormon War, the event in which Joseph Smith was killed at Carthage, Illinois. It hardly merited the title "war." Thereafter, under the leadership of Brigham Young, the Mormons began a trek to the west.

The first Republican candidate for President was John C. Freemont. He lost to Buchanan, but the Republicans attacked the Democrats as soft on polygamy and slavery. One result was that Brigham Young was removed from office as the Territorial Governor of Utah, and Alfred Cumming was appointed in his place, with United States Army forces detailed to escort him. Albert Sidney Johnston was eventually given command of the escort, which had by then become a punitive expedition, because the Mormons had run all Federal officials out of the territory they controlled, and it was alleged that they had murdered some of them (i don't believe, however, that they actually had murdered any Federal officials, although that was believed at the time). Johnston wintered his troops in Wyoming in the winter of 1857-58, and recieved resupply and more troops early in 1858. Buchanan was heavily criticized in the national press, and Thomas Kane went to Utah to negotiate a settlement. Young and the Latter Day Saints resentfully proclaimed that they had never been in rebellion, and agreed to accept the new territorial governor. Buchanan was then convinced to send Cumming in without a military escort, and Johnston refrained from invading Utah. In the meantime, though, many Mormons had pulled up stakes, abandoning valuable property, and retreated to the souther portion of the territory, and into the White Mountains which straddle the border with Arizona. The Mormon polygamist crackpots survive there to this day.

The contention that the Mormons could resist the United States in arms is even more absurd in the late 20th century than it was in the mid-nineteenth century. Gunga is making sh!t up again. The notion that other western states would attempt to secede in congress with the Mormons of Utah is an exercise in the surreal.

********************************************

I am not surprised, though to see SWolf/Gumga Din use a thread about Montenegro's independence to lash out at Clinton, who he hates with a passion for the attack on Serbia. Whenever the Serbs are even mentioned in passing, expect him to show up and start throwing around wild accusations, and distoriting historical truth.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 09:08 am
One would hope with this vote that the 20th century fantasy of a pan Serbian union (or Greater Serbia) is finally put to rest. Good riddance.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 09:20 am
I hope the same, Acq, and i hesitantly am willing to suggest that we live in the era in which the Serbs will give up the notion of "Greater Serbia." The world has suffered enough grief from that chimera.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 10:52 am
Btw: Montenegro's assembly today verifys the results of the May 21 referendum and formally proclaims a declaration on independence.



Quote:
Belgrade. The President of Serbia Boris Tadic will not be able to attend the reception in Podgorica held on the occasion of the official declaration of the independence of Montenegro, the press office of the Serbian President reported. According to the announcement, the Serbian President has greeted the Montenegrin people and wished prosperity and peace.

Source: BETA, Serbia, via Focus English News
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 10:57 am
The long term question will be whether or not the Serbs produce a righwing political movement which will once again call for a Greater Serbia. If they can make it a few decades in peace with their neighbors, there might be hope.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 02:06 pm
http://www.bakutoday.net/afp_images/SGE.DBI08.030606190910.photo00.photo.default-512x325.jpg
© AFP - Andrej Isakovic
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 04:09 pm
Setanta wrote:
The long term question will be whether or not the Serbs produce a righwing political movement which will once again call for a Greater Serbia. If they can make it a few decades in peace with their neighbors, there might be hope......



I have no apriori stake in anything involving the balkans. I am not of slavic origin, a member of the orthodox church etc. and in fact I do not really even know any Serbs. I speak Russian reasonably well and I have a reasonably good idea of how Russians think, and there was a big question mark in 95, i.e. assuming everything you read in the media is correct and the Serbs really are the assholes of the world, is it worth damaging relations with Russia over? To me the answer was not really, but I could not have framed an argument or a case very easily.

When the whole process started up again in 99, I decided to make it my business to go out on the internet and learn as much as possible on the subject. Here's what all I learned:

As nearly as I can tell, the Serbs are the closest thing there are to normal decent people in the Balkans. There were 25 or 26 ethnic groups in the yugoslav federation, only three or four of which had any sort of a problem dealing with Serbs, and those are the three or four which sided with Adolf Hitler in WW-II.

In fact the Serbs declared war on Hitler and held him for many months and sent him into Russia in the dead of winter instead of on schedule, but for which we might all be working in a Nazi coal mine in West Virginia. In fact, the Serbs rescued something like 500 allied airmen who were downed coming back from the raids over Ploesti and other alkan targets. Any allied airman who ever parachuted into Croatia, Albania, or any of the other parts of the Balkans was tortured and killed.

The Serbs paid a huge price for this, two or three million being killed in death camps in the surrounding states, which sided with Hitler.

Kosovo in fact had been majority Serb prior to the war and was the ancient heartland of Serbia, with 1500 or so orthodox shrines and monasteries. Many Serbs living in Kosovo were killed by the nazis, and Tito, a Croat, moved many more out of Kosovo, and then you started getting large numbers of Albanians moving into Kosovo to escape one of the worst regimes in the commie world in Albania. Most Albanian Kosovars are in fact illegal immigrants.

Bad went to worse after the war until Milosevic ended up having to rescind the autonomy of the province in 89, and that was the genesis of the modern problems of Kosovo. Milosevic had no options; every other ethnic group in Kosovo was being brutalized by the Albanians. According to every account I was able to read, in the winter of 99, there was in actual fact nothing resembling ethnic cleansing or genocide going on in Kosovo; only a bunch of innocent people trying to protect themselves from a low-grade guerilla war being waged by narco-terrorists with money and arms being supplied by other nations.

In fact the whole problem in Kosovo was the Albanians, who appear to be universally hated in the region. These people average ten or twelve children per family, and attempt to ensconce themselves into little corners of other peoples' countries and breed for fifteen or twenty years until they constitute a majority population in those corners, and then break those corners off into their "greater Albania". Greeks, Macedonians, Serbs and othere refer to this as "rabbit breeding your way to power". That's aside from rape, murder, poisoning wells etc. etc., which they also excel at.

From everything I was able to read, Albanians are responsible for as much as 90% of European heroin trafficking, most of the prostitution south of Germany, most of the traffic in stolen vehicles moving from Europe to Russia and the Levant, and on and on and on. Therefore it came as no surprise to to learn that the real reasons such as they were for our involvement had basically nothing to do with Albanian Kosovars, who no rational person could give a rat's ass over. There were six or eight real reasons for wanting to get into Kosovo and together they did not add up to a believable case and the pentagon advised Slick not to do it.

Nonetheless the thing which was on the front page of virtually all American journals at the time was the Juanita Broaddrick story, i.e. a credible allegation of a brutal rape by a sitting president of the United States, and Slick clearly needed something to get that story off the papers. A week after Kosovo started, there were pictures of Slick and his toadies doing high-fives and talking about hitting a home run. A home run, in fact, which cost the lives of several thousand little slavic orthodox children.

As near as I could tell, NATO commanders realized that this thing was another episode of dog-wagging for which they could not ask pilots to risk their lives over and ordered bombing attacks practically from orbit, and then when they realized they could not harm the Serbian military from 25,000', embarked upon a wholesale campaign of what most people would call war crimes, targetting the Serbian people and their infrastructure hundreds of kilometers from any legitimate military target.

Aside from every other problem with Kosovo, the precedent which it represents cannot possibly be allowed to stand. If ethnicity is everything and ownership and sovereignty don't mean anything anymore, then what are we going to say when the UN comes here demanding that we hand Texas, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and California over to Mexico on the same perverted basis?

In other words, Kosovo is the basic blueprint for "Atzlan".
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 04:13 pm
The genesis of the most recent problems in Kosovo was Milosevic rescinding the autonomy of the region in 89. Basically, he had to; every other ethnic group in the province was being brutalized by the Albanians:

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/ddj/Kosovo/articles/Binder87NYT.htm

Other NYT articles from the 80s before there was any sort of a KKKlintonista/NWO/Soros/NATO axe to grind describe Albanian Kosovars as a bunch of savages:

http://members.tripod.com/~sarant_2/ksm.html

A number of other articles worth looking at:

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/Kosovo/hoax/articles/index.html
0 Replies
 
mrcolj
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jun, 2006 02:02 pm
gungasnake wrote:
For anybody who might have missed it, the Mormons basically told Slick KKKlinton and Janet Reno that if they ever so much as thought about doing anything like Waco or Ruby Ridge (or Kosovo for that matter) in Utah, they'd pull Utah out of the union so fast it would make their heads spin and most likely take ten or twelve western states with them. Utah of course is almost entirely self sufficient and can be sealed tighter than a drum at three or four points; the only thing Slick and Reno could even have tried would have been an assault landing at one of the airports, and the national guard in Utah is entirely Mormon, good luck. The church itself then went out and bought 30 million dollars worth of surplus 308 ammunition (amongst other things) on the international markets to make sure they had the psychopaths' attentions.

I know it's off topic, but I didn't start it:
For as much as I dislike Clinton and would like to see this as an episode of something-or-other, I really really don't believe any of this happened. I lived in Utah for most of that time, and do now, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has never stuck its neck out for polygamists (at least not in the last 100 years.) All the polygamy-prosecuting authorities out here, from the cops to the judges to the Attorney General, are all Mormons. And while we're very much a state that believes in the Consitution (including the 2nd Amendment), unless you have some inside track you'd have no way of asserting that Utah or the LDS Church somehow bought or distributed $30M worth of $0.10 bullets on "the international market." That's not really like them... Anyway, will you reveal some of your sources to such allegations?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 03:16 pm
Quote:
Minorities Accuse Djukanovic of Betrayal

By Nedjeljko Rudovic in Podgorica (Balkan Insight, 20 July 06)


Short version:

Quote:
Ethnic minority leaders are furiously accusing Montenegro 's government betrayal, after the courts struck down a law guaranteeing their parties fixed numbers of seats in parliament.

Minority leaders rounded on the prime minister, Milo Djukanovic, leader of the governing Democratic Party of Socialists, DPS, charging him with bad faith on the grounds that his party undoubtedly had influence on the court.

They said they would not have supported Djukanovic's referendum on independence on May 21 without the guarantees they thought they had received in the act.

The government passed the Minority Rights Act only ten days before the independence poll. Bosniak representatives in particular had made its passage a condition of support for the independence cause.

The act granted minority groups comprising between one and five per cent of the population one seat in parliament and allocated three to ethnic groups constituting over five per cent.

The law was politically significant in Montenegro, which is a highly multi-ethnic society in which no one group holds an absolute majority.

Ethnic minority votes were crucial in enabling Djukanovic to carry the independence vote against strong opposition from most Serbs and some Montenegrins.

The government insists it had nothing to do with the court decision and regretted the development. It also promised to amend the constitution after the next general election so as to ensure that any future act on guaranteed representation for minorities could not be found unconstitutional.

The ruling party attempted to defuse some of the parties' anger and disappointment by offering the main Bosniak and Croat parties some seats in parliament as part of a joint slate of candidates with the DPS.

Montenegro 's president, Filip Vujanovic, said he was certain ethnic minority parties would be satisfactorily represented in parliament in the long term.

"It is in the interest of Montenegro to have ethnic minority parties represented in the parliament that should protect minority ethnic interests," he said.
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