Best American Fiction of the Last 25 Years?

BernardR wrote:

The comment made by Plain Ol Me is laughable. She is, of course, entitled to her opinion that very few authors don't have more than one book in them, but I think that is nonsense and might be due to the fact that Plain Ol Me may not understand what the writer is saying--

Modern Authors who had more than one book in them--

Bellow, Roth, DiLillo, Updike, Mailer and Hemingway..

Did you really study literature?

Yes dear, did you?

All I have seen from you so far is regurgitated glurge from a couple of critics.

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I am very much afraid you don't know what you are talking about, MS. Dlowan--Regurgitated glurge??

You don't seem to know what it means because it does not relate to my posts at all.

Glurge
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Glurge is a neologism describing a certain kind of melodramatic, saccharine story. The defining characteristic of glurge is that, while its purpose is to make the reader happy, the feel-good aspect is so overdone that some readers are likely to be nauseated rather than inspired. It often has a religious theme and is most commonly circulated via e-mail in the form of a chain letter. The term was coined in 1998 by regular Urban Legends Reference Pages forum contributor Pat Chapin as an onomatopoeia to communicate the feeling evoked by reading these missives. According to the Urban Legends Reference Pages, glurge is "the sending of inspirational (often supposedly 'true') tales that conceal much darker meanings than the uplifting moral lessons they purport to offer, and that undermine their messages by fabricating and distorting historical fact in the guise of offering a 'true story

A RELIGIOUS THEME CIRCULATED BY E-MAIL IN THE FORM OF A CHAIN LETTER????????

lol lol lol

Do you have a dictionary handy? You had better use it. You apparently do not know how to use words precisely.

And when I comes to substance, I can offer far far more than you can off the top of my head on more subjects than you can imagine.

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BernardR wrote:

I am very much afraid you don't know what you are talking about, MS. Dlowan--Regurgitated glurge??

You don't seem to know what it means because it does not relate to my posts at all.

Glurge
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Glurge is a neologism describing a certain kind of melodramatic, saccharine story. The defining characteristic of glurge is that, while its purpose is to make the reader happy, the feel-good aspect is so overdone that some readers are likely to be nauseated rather than inspired. It often has a religious theme and is most commonly circulated via e-mail in the form of a chain letter. The term was coined in 1998 by regular Urban Legends Reference Pages forum contributor Pat Chapin as an onomatopoeia to communicate the feeling evoked by reading these missives. According to the Urban Legends Reference Pages, glurge is "the sending of inspirational (often supposedly 'true') tales that conceal much darker meanings than the uplifting moral lessons they purport to offer, and that undermine their messages by fabricating and distorting historical fact in the guise of offering a 'true story

A RELIGIOUS THEME CIRCULATED BY E-MAIL IN THE FORM OF A CHAIN LETTER????????

lol lol lol

Do you have a dictionary handy? You had better use it. You apparently do not know how to use words precisely.

And when I comes to substance, I can offer far far more than you can off the top of my head on more subjects than you can imagine.

Actually, I would go with this definition of glurge:

"Anything overly sappy, corny, or kitchy used to incite an emotional reaction. It is usually fictional, absurd and over-exaggerated and therefore fails at its intended task."

I regard regurgitating chunks of one critic's view as though it is holy writ as sappy, corny and kitchy.

Your silly patronising persona is fictional, absurd and over-exaggerated and therefore fails at its intended task.

I have no idea why you adopt this odd persona for your trolling......unless it is actually you? In that case you have my deepest sympathies.

If you truly have something to offer in the literature forums, why not offer it? You might find that genuine interaction is fun.

However, while you pompously deliver undigested chunks of others' thoughts, or post only as a troll, in an attempt to do whatever it is that trolls do (try to upset people? make 'em feel bad? have a fight? I don't know) with no intent to discuss anything in a reasonable and interesting way, then you will be ignored, or jumped on, or teased and satirised.

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You apparently didn't read my post on Steven Pinker's "The Blank Slate"

The reason I adopt a person for my" trolling "is that you think I adopt a person for my "trolling" whereas I think that some of the posters on this literature thread are not really lovers of literature but pseudo-intellectuals who wouldn't know good literature if it hit them in the backside.

Plain Ol Me avers that she thinks that James T. Farrell's Studs Lonigan shows that the "American Male fails to move off center from Childhood to Adulthood".. I would love to see her bring evidence on that statement. Or is it something she feels is true? If it is, as I pointed out, Farrell wrote Studs Lonigan in the thirties and the action was set in the late second and third decades of the century.

My reference to Dr, Harold Bloom was important. Plain Ol Me and others dismissed him even though he is one of the premier literary critics in the USA.

Some people acted as if there were no such thing as the "Canon".

If I am going to interact on literature with people, I cannot interact with people who live in another Universe.

Most of the posters never read "The Invisible Man" or "Native Son'> That means they cannot compare them to the pathetic Ghost story-Beloved.

The only reason that Beloved has become a rallying point is that it was written by an African-American Woman- And to opt for such a book is completely and unreservedly politically correct. While one of the great authors of the last half of the twentieth century, Norman Mailer, is passed over without comment because he is not politically correct.

I will continue to base my readings on the wise counsel of Dr, Harold Bloom because as he wisely points out---"The Biblical three-score and ten no longer suffice to read more than a SELECTION OF THE GREAT WRITERS in what can be called the Western Tradition, let alone in all the world's traditions".

I believe that, and while I must state that anyone has an absolute right to read whatever pleases them, I cannot endorse some of it. I certainly would not waste time on garbage like "Beloved".

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On what do you base your strange assertion that people have not read "Invisible Man" etc?

As to Bloom, defend him by all means....but use your own mind in doing so, eh?

Anyone can read Bloom and do so with far more profit than via your undigested regurgitations.

Go on, take a risk....just try being real.

Oh...and possum....not being American, my readin gis much broader than the American "canon".

I know this is a thread about American fiction........but I do hope you are not obsessed just with USA literature?

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Mr. R--how about restricting your bludgeon to the political threads and being more civil here? The literary threads are few and far between--there's no need to attack posters you don't agree with...

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D'Art to the Heart -- I love DeLillo and Roth but have not read either for years. I read more non-fiction than fiction these days because there are just too many issues about which I need information: science, the environment and, of course, to support my work in literature and writing, as well as to satisfy my curiosity, history.

As I type this, passages from White Noise are dancing through my head and I had to have read it not long after it was published. I do love Roth's occassional salty comments on the world at large,but, of course, he is America's pre-eminent satirist.

I haven't read Trevor.

Who is Nicola Barker? Tell us something about her.

I used to read the New York Review of Books and the NYT Book Review religiously but found they took up far too much time.

Although I do not participate in a book group at the present time, like you, I appreciate finding some good commentary on literature here in the muck and mire.

Like dlowan, I have tried to start book threads that went nowhere, but, my access to A2K is limited.

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dlowan wrote:

On what do you base your strange assertion that people have not read "Invisible Man" etc?

As to Bloom, defend him by all means....but use your own mind in doing so, eh?

Anyone can read Bloom and do so with far more profit than via your undigested regurgitations.

Go on, take a risk....just try being real.

Oh...and possum....not being American, my readin gis much broader than the American "canon".

I know this is a thread about American fiction........but I do hope you are not obsessed just with USA literature?

That business about calling contributors, "Mr." reminds me of a discussion I had with someone year ago, when Charlayne Hunter-Gault was still part of the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour. A bloated fat man with a thick Southern accent made a point of calling her, "Charlene," at the beginning of each of his comments. It was grating and irritating.

I spoke with an older woman who was in some sort of leadership position in something in which I participated about how angry it made me and how she ignored the whole thing. The woman I spoke with said that the man probably tried to break down her poise and professionalism by mispronouncing her name and using it excessively -- a tool people indulge in when they are control freaks.

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"White Noise" is a favorite of mine, plainoldme!

Nicola Barker is a youngish English novelist and writer of short stories. I've read about half her oeuvre. I find myself caught up in the slightly off-center world she creates in each story. Here's some good info on her:

http://www.contemporarywriters.com/authors/?p=auth14

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D'Art redux -- You asked whether there is a Great French novel or a Great British novel. Funny thing, someone once asked why it is that there are so many fine and accomplished American and British women authors, but there seems to be no French woman of high status who is studied in the US the way Austen or Lessing or Wharton, etc., are studied.

So, I decided to find out why and began reading French women writers. I read all of France's "sacred monster," Simone de Beauvoir and attempted George Sand and Colette. At least Simone can be read. Sand is just awful and I couldn't get into Colette.

--------------

Once again on The Canon (hamstrung by the fact that I can not underline), as in the book by Princeton's sacred monster and as the canon, that body of literature some revere while others revile.

Once upon a time, there was something called the Five Foot Shelf, which, I believe, was compiled by a former president of Harvard.

It had no legitimacy. He simply sat down one day and began compiling a list of books he likes.

Now, I have brought down upon myself the ire of some people because I wrote that from the first (and only) review of Da Vinci Code, I knew I wouldn't like the book because it wasn't literature.

One of the purposes of reviews is to short cut the selection process and lead the reader to books he/she will enjoy/benefit from/being enlightened by. A thoughtful reader makes note of phrases such as the description of the author as " a good storyteller " which signal the fact that the book is NOT literature.

A contributor to these threads said it was all in my mind. Well, what is the purpose of education but to develop within the educated a sense of what is worthwhile, edifying, etc.

I think DVC is junk. I also think it is satire. I think reading it would have angered me -- I did read the first two and the last two pages and found the style ham-fisted, as a person whose writing I admire pointed out.

I have reached the point in life where I do not need the parrot a critic. I know, D'Art, that you have as well, and, so have you, dlowan.

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I'll look Nicola up. Hopefully, I will need some up-to-date short stories in the fall.

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What Colette did you try to read, POM?

Don't forget the Claudine novellas were written by her so her first husband could pass them off as light erotica written by him.

I have not read any Collette for years, but recall, of her works, "Sido" and "In My Mother's Garden" as being the two I loved.

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Dlowan said:

Oh...and possum....not being American, my readin gis much broader than the American "canon".

I know this is a thread about American fiction........but I do hope you are not obsessed just with USA literature?

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How SUPREMELY ignorant!!! You and Plain Ol have been commenting on Professor Bloom's Canon and YOU DON'T KNOW that the Canon covers more than American Literature??????????????????????????????????

I'll bet you have NEVER looked at Bloom's Book "The Western Canon"

If you had, you would know that the Canon--The Western Canon--as defined by Dr. Bloom covers many non-Americans--among them Homer, Virgil, Dante, Chaucer, Shakespeare, Cervantes, Montaigne. Milton, Goethe, Tolstoy, Ibsen, Kafka and Proust.

AND, dlowan, Dr, Bloom calls Shakespeare(NOT AMERICAN)--"The Center of the Canon"

How many of the writers above have YOU read? I have read all of them, in whole or in part.

PS- My name is not possum- harebrain!!!!!

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BernardR wrote:

Dlowan said:

Oh...and possum....not being American, my readin gis much broader than the American "canon".

I know this is a thread about American fiction........but I do hope you are not obsessed just with USA literature?

************************************************************

How SUPREMELY ignorant!!! You and Plain Ol have been commenting on Professor Bloom's Canon and YOU DON'T KNOW that the Canon covers more than American Literature??????????????????????????????????

I'll bet you have NEVER looked at Bloom's Book "The Western Canon"

If you had, you would know that the Canon--The Western Canon--as defined by Dr. Bloom covers many non-Americans--among them Homer, Virgil, Dante, Chaucer, Shakespeare, Cervantes, Montaigne. Milton, Goethe, Tolstoy, Ibsen, Kafka and Proust.

AND, dlowan, Dr, Bloom calls Shakespeare(NOT AMERICAN)--"The Center of the Canon"

How many of the writers above have YOU read? I have read all of them, in whole or in part.

PS- My name is not possum- harebrain!!!!!

Lol!!! Yes, possum, I was aware that Bloom has interests outside USA literature (after all, he has published quite a bit on Shakespeare!)...I just haven't seen any evidence that you do.

You seem to have quite an anger issue, and to have a compulsive need to make yourself appear superior to others..(a desired effect constantly undermined both by your ignorance and repellent presentation) ....have you considered therapy?

You could start right here and right now by making an authentic and reasonably sanely expressed comment about literature, from your own brain. Come on, you can do it!

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From my own brain---I read Beloved by Toni Morrison and found it to be a feminist race card playing piece of dreck.

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I am very much afraid, Ms. Dlowan, that anyone who uses a "rabbit" as an avatar shows a distressing lack of grounding in reality. Have YOU considered "therapy"?

I can give you more insights on literature--I mean literature---not the feminist and race card playing minorities that purport to pass for writers at this time.

The great American writers have been crowded out by the garbage produced by fakes like Morrison, the almost moronic Alice Walker, and the amorphous Gore Vidal.

Are you aware that our the greatest American writers of the last century are disappearing from our college curriculums? Did you know that very few are introduced to Hemingway, Wolfe, or Mailer?

And, outside of American Literature, we find that feminist crap is driving out Shakespeare.

One of Shakespeare's plays, Hamlet especially, is worth MORE in terms of literary accomplishment and influence than all of the garbage stemming from the feminist race carders and the ridiculous relativistic playwrights like Albee.

Do you know Albee's sublime and uplifting play-"Who is Sylvia" or "The Goat"?

It is typical of the moronic filth that passes for literature today.

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BernardR wrote:

I am very much afraid, Ms. Dlowan, that anyone who uses a "rabbit" as an avatar shows a distressing lack of grounding in reality. Have YOU considered "therapy"?

I can give you more insights on literature--I mean literature---not the feminist and race card playing minorities that purport to pass for writers at this time.

The great American writers have been crowded out by the garbage produced by fakes like Morrison, the almost moronic Alice Walker, and the amorphous Gore Vidal.

Are you aware that our the greatest American writers of the last century are disappearing from our college curriculums? Did you know that very few are introduced to Hemingway, Wolfe, or Mailer?

And, outside of American Literature, we find that feminist crap is driving out Shakespeare.

One of Shakespeare's plays, Hamlet especially, is worth MORE in terms of literary accomplishment and influence than all of the garbage stemming from the feminist race carders and the ridiculous relativistic playwrights like Albee.

Do you know Albee's sublime and uplifting play-"Who is Sylvia" or "The Goat"?

It is typical of the moronic filth that passes for literature today.

So...go on sweetie...do it. Just one genuine thought of your own....just one, not your weary diatribe! One original thought.....or disappear. There must be a forum somewhere where you can polish your poisonous balls of hate with the approbation of fellow obsessive haters?

You appear to have a morbid fascination for what you deride in literature....like the pathetic cleric who pores over and is obsessed by "perversions" etc, only in order to condemn, of course! Only that others may be clean!

Oh, your little spasm made me forget something.

It is not, I would have thought, a subtle point, but I shall make it obvious for you.

I have actually not commented on your beloved Bloom, either positively or negatively....I have no particular quarrel with critics who create these canons.....it is all grist to the mill of discussion.

What I have criticised is your planting of undigested gobbets of your version of Bloom instead of contributing anything. Even a COMMENTARY on Bloom might be interesting.

It is YOU I criticise, not Bloom.

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To return to the thread's purpose....a book I loved was Anne Michaels' "Fugitive Pieces"...it finishes in the USA, so I imagine it is American....(oh, just checked, she is Canadian...and the characters move to Canada, not the US...damn!)

Anyone else consider this a runner for a recent best North American literature status?

Anyone read it?

It is a while since I did, so I have impressions of the wonderful sensuousness and simplicity of the prose, and the marvellous cascade of ideas....rather than, any longer, a clear idea of plot.

http://www.library.utoronto.ca/canpoetry/michaels/crit3.htm

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0679776591/104-6796068-8230314?v=glance&n=283155

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Can you find what I wrote in Bloom? Or anywhere else? I dare you to. You are the slavish one--reading feminist garbage. Where are your original thoughts.?

Are you going to tell me that you are genius who comes up with truly original thoughts that have not been influenced by your life experiences or your reading?. I know better!

I can deride whatever I please. I can praise whatever I please. You obviously missed my comment on Shakespeare's Hamlet. You have proabably never read the play!!!

Read what I wrote---find where I copied it from--and then you will be correct.

You won't be able to do it, Rabbit!!

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BernardR wrote:

Can you find what I wrote in Bloom? Or anywhere else? I dare you to. You are the slavish one--reading feminist garbage. Where are your original thoughts.?

Are you going to tell me that you are genius who comes up with truly original thoughts that have not been influenced by your life experiences or your reading?. I know better!

I can deride whatever I please. I can praise whatever I please. You obviously missed my comment on Shakespeare's Hamlet. You have proabably never read the play!!!

Read what I wrote---find where I copied it from--and then you will be correct.

You won't be able to do it, Rabbit!!

Lol! Where did I say copy, Possum?

Now, wake me up when you have a thought of your own.

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Best American Fiction of the Last 25 Years?

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