Jose Can You See...

I'm not sure I follow you. Can you expand on that?

If I am against an illegal act (e.g., robbery), then I am also against the person committing the illegal act (the robber).

I am against the hiring of illegals too. Does mean that I somehow shouldn't be against the people who are doing the hiring?

I'd say I'm anti illegal immigration and alien. No such thing as an "illegal immigrant", those are just alien criminals. No point in splitting hairs over such a cut and dry issue.

Everything's black and white when viewed from under a sheet.

Just keep throwing the race card out there bs and pretty soon nobody will notice you any longer.

My grandfather used to sing "America the Beautiful" in Russian, it's one of my favorite memories about him.

Disregarding all racial issues, it is infuriating to me that these people (any people for that matter) can illegally enter into our country and take advantage of the opportunities that are ours by right. What about the people who are legal immigrants? They went through the work to become a citizen and so should everyone. How can anyone expect not to have to?

It is my singular opinion that what is going on in the country regarding this issue is completely pointless (not to mention weird). Clear me up if I'm wrong here, but are illegal aliens, people who are not citizens, protesting to our government for rights? Rights they have no claim to as non-citizens? That's bogus, regardless of color, race, or creed.

Completely bogus. Just like their employers claims that they cannot find Americans to do the work. At $10/hour with no benefits and no social security being paid, of course not! They're all criminals.

HI I AM A MEXICAN LEGAL RESIDENT IN USA. I UNDERSTAND MANY OF THE POINTS OF PEOPLE BORN IN AMERICA. I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT EVERYONE THAT COMES HERE HAS TO DO IT LEGALLY AND OBEY THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY. I LIKE THE IDEA OF LEARNING ABOUT YOUR CULTURE AND YOUR LANGUAGE, GETTING TO BEFRIEND PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT CULTURES. BUT I ALSO KNOW THE SITUATION IN THE COUNTRY WHERE I GREW UP AND I KNOW THAT FOR THE MAJORITY THAT COME HERE ILLEGALLY IS BECAUSE THE KIND OF JOBS THEY PREVIOUSLY USED TO HAVE IN MEXICO, ARE NOT ENOUGH JUSTIFICATION TO GET A VISA AND THEN BEING ABLE TO GET A WORKING VISA. YOU NEED TO PROVE A STATUS FIRST. SO THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. THE THING I TOTALLY DISAGREE IS THAT THEY SHOULD BE TREATED AS CRIMINALS HAVING A CRIMINAL RECORD. WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO ABOUT CHILDREN? I THINK WORKING TEMPORARY VISAS ARE THE WAY TO GO. AND EVERYONE THAT INTENDS TO STAY HERE SHOULD LEARN THE LANGUAGE, STUDY, AND THROUGH THE YEARS BE ABLE TO PROVE A GOOD LEGAL RECORD. AND YES EVEN THOUGH I AM FROM MEXICO I THINK BORDERS SHOULD BE ENFORCED. WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER TRAGEDY HAPPENING AND I AM NOT SAYING MY PEOPLE ARE TERRORISTS, BUT IF ENFORCEMENTS ARE NOT ESTABLISHED THERE COULD BE A DOOR FOR TERRORISTS.( BUT I AM CONFUSED IN THIS ASPECT BECAUSE IF SO,WHAT HAPPENS TO THE NORTHERN BORDER?) LETS FACE IT IT IS MAYBE ONLY A WAY TO AVOID MORE ILLEGALS IN THE COUNTRY BUT I DON'T BLAME THAT.

butterfly, as an American, I appreciate the fact that you acknowledge the danger of an unsecured border. Especially for a country that was the victim of an unspeakable terrorist attack only a few years ago.

The American/Mexican border has been like one big unlocked back door, and we have thousands of people coming over the border undocumented. We have no idea who they are, why they are coming here, or what they are doing after they arrive.

It's madness -- and it's potentially dangerous.

There may be many Mexicans who are coming here for positive reasons. They want to work and create a better life for themselves. But at the moment, we have no way of telling the good guys from the bad guys. We don't know who any of them are.



I don't doubt that this is true.

I know a guy from Mexico who runs a very nice Mexican restaurant here. He came in legally. He's one of the most charming guys you'd ever want to meet. He's also intelligent and speaks English beautifully. He's obviously well educated.

All things considered, it probably wasn't that difficult for him to immigrate here. Who wouldn't want an immigrant like him?

The fact is, immigration laws (and not just in this country!) are usually designed so that the "desirables" (those who have a pretty good education and work skills) can get in -- while excluding the "undesirables" (those who have little education and are unskilled).

So, I can easily believe that it's tougher for the poorer folks to have a chance to immigrate to another country.



Yes, I think having temporary work visas is a pretty good idea. There are still some things about it that trouble me, though.

As others here have pointed out, some of the employers who hire "illegal aliens" are not exactly upstanding. They would happily take advantage of their American workers if they could get away with it (and they sometimes do). I can only imagine what they are doing, given the chance to exploit workers who have no legal recourse.

So I think there would have to be some serious government regulation involved in the temporary work program. Employers would want to see that there is some benefit in it for them, but they also have to realize they can't totally and completely exploit the visiting workers.

For examply, they can't work people for 12 or 14 hour days. If someone is injured on the job, they should receive medical care (paid for by the employer -- whether the employer likes it or not).

The idea of temporary work visas isn't perfect, but then, nothing ever is. But it would definately be at least ten times better than the current situation.

Anyway, I'm glad you were able to get here, butterfly, and that you were able to do it legally. I hope everything is going well for you.

Recepción a América!

Yes, for that reason I think temporary working visas could be a choice, that way there is a way to keep track of who comes. And eventually if this works out, a path to permanent residence but following the same procedures that every person that is waiting in line right now has follow (about 12 years waiting). But of course there could be another solution too.


Just for curiosity (if you don't mind), I would like to know what things you don't like about it?





Yes I think there should be serious punishments for employers and also for coyotes.


And thank you for the reception, this actually one of my first times ever that I join a forum.

Basically, just what I outlined about the potential danger of employers thinking it's "open season" on the immigrant workers. There have to be some rules in place to prevent that from happening.

Of course, no program is going to be perfect. But I agree the temporary work visas would be a much better alternative than turning a blind eye to the whole thing.



I totally agree.



Your very welcome, butterfly. Glad you're here! :wink:

Migrant workers have been a part of the American economy for a long, long time. They didn't use to settle, demand rights of a citizen, and protest while defaming our nation.

Defaming our nation? Our nation got defamed by some immigrants? Was that when they waved the Mexican flag?

What you choose to watch on CNN isn't my version of the news. The truth should piss you off, but I doubt it does, Mr. Insubordinate.

As a member of the guard/armed forces, if this doesn't anger you, you have no business with that job.

Looking at that picture puts me in mind of how jubilant the Iraqi people must feel now that President Bush has shown them the way to peace and democracy through his bold plan for victory in Iraq!

Ahhh, yes. What a shining beacon of democracy President Bush has created in Iraq, with his steadfast and unwavering strategy for victory.

CJ,

Just out of curisosity... do other ethnic celebrations in the US get you just as mad, or is it just people of Mexican descent?

Near my house is a community called Nonantum which has been a very Italian area for decades. In the summer there is a big festival, and the Italian flag is seen everywhere... in fact the yellow lines painted on the middle of the street are repainted in the Italian red and green.

Of course, many Americans; Poles, Greeks and even Latvians celebrate their old heritage and still carry their flags.




Ethnic celebrations with music, food and flags is a very old American tradition.

That's no celebration, and for you to spin otherwise shows your true colors, green, red and white.

No sh*t!

The title of this thread is not "Ethnic Celebrations: Good or Bad?"

I think what's bothering cj is the fact that the immigrants in the pic he posted are here illegally and have an "in your face" attitude about it.

But I think you knew that. No one could possibly be that damn obtuse. I hope.