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Can dogs get antibiotic induced yeast infections?

 
 
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 07:11 pm
This is a little graphic so consider yourself warned....

My 13 year old dog has suddenly started to get vulva infections. The vets keep putting her on larger and larger doses of antibiotics and it seems to just be coming back worse than ever. She gets this totally funky smell and associated discharge and it is pretty yukky.

Now they are recommending an episioplasy. This surgery costs $1,200. Frankly I just don't have that kind of cash right now.

I talked to my vet (who is great, truly, one of the best) and we discussed other things to try - ways to keep her clean and dry to help clear up the infections.

I certainly don't mind doing routine maintence on my dog but she is not really too agreeable about it.

Last night I started wondering if perhaps, like women, dogs can get yeast infections from taking antibiotics and if perhaps giving her acidophilus would help get her body back in order.

I researched this a bit today and couldn't come up with any kind of difinitive answer other than acidophilus wouldn't hurt her and could in fact benefit her digestion.

So I gave her some.

Tomorrow I want to call the vet and discuss this option with him and I would kind of like to have some facts and know what I'm talking about so I am here asking for help.

Does anyone know anything about this?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 18,762 • Replies: 28
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 07:19 pm
My female dog has chronic yeast infections in her ears. I know the vet says "no" to antibiotics for her because of that.

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searching

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Quote:
being on strong antibiotics can predispose the bitch or male to yeast infections. I usually feed yogurt in heavier amounts while the dogs are on antibiotics to try to prevent this problem.


http://members.aol.com/RocknRob56/preparing.html

~~~~~~~

http://www.thepetprofessor.com/articles/article.aspx?id=215
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 07:22 pm
Quote:
Both of our dogs are male, but friends tell me the tea Tree hydrosol also works to rid female dogs of yeast infections in the vulva. Simply wash that area thoroughly with the hydrosol.


http://www.naturesgift.com/hydrosol/TeaTreeHydrosol.htm

I use tea tree oil for Cleo's regular springtime yeast infection in her ears. Works every time. You can get it in a spray as well as liquid formulation. I got some as essential oil once, but didn't have the patience to mix it up myself.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 07:31 pm
http://www.b-naturals.com/Sum1997.php

this looks like a good resource - it lines up with I've learned from our current vet <and Cleo's original holistic vet> and our very good holistic pet store guy
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 07:32 pm
Thanks, eBeth!!

Tea tree oil, huh?

I've been using Domeboro solution every day as the vet recommended and it is helping some but I can already tell that the funk is coming back and she isn't even finished with this current round of antibiotics.

My vet is an internest and doesn't recommend surgery lightly. He would not even be doing the surgery. I guess this makes me think I'm being a cheap jerk to not just get it done.

Thanks for the links.... I'm going to go check them out now!
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 07:33 pm
Bailey gets 'hot spots' in the summer, and the tea tree oil spray really helps with that as well - and on the upside for me, both dogs end up smelling kinda nice, in an unperfumey way.
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 08:45 pm
I've also got a dog with the chronic ear yeast issues (Malassezia pachydermatis it be, if ye be keen on pedantry). Tied to her allergic outbreaks and usually self resolves, though we do occasionally resort to topical tri-otic (and antibiotic, an antifungal, and a steroid) to get things under control when it goes on for an especially long time.

Boomerang's dog is in considerably more danger of systemic infection than our ear-problem beasts, given the location of the infection and the likely pathogens (I'd guess Candida, which can be a lot worse than Pachydermatis, which is generally only a nuisance).

Has there any talk of treating with an antifungal agent, boomer?
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 09:01 pm
No. There hasn't been any anti-fungal talk.

There has been talk of helping it with antibiotic ointment -- and we tried that.

Should I ask about an anti-fungal? Any particular type/brand?

It seems that the constant antibiotics is making things worse.

As a woman, I know that antibiotics have a bad effect on other body parts and that taking acidopilus in conjunction with antibiotics helps relieve other symptoms.

That is why, after reading that acidopilus would not have any negative effect on her that I decided to try it.

I'm thinking that I need to clarify with my vet about the nature of the pathogens. From our discussion I know that there is nothing terribly atypical about the bacteria that is present -- it is normal vaginal bacteria but appearing in excess -- exactly like what happens when a human woman takes strong doses of antibiotics.

My other dog, who is 14, and the sister (from different litters) to this dog has a similar recessed vulvar construction but we have always been able to keep her clean and healthy without much effort or problem.

<sigh>

It just seems that the more ($80 per week) antibiotics that we use the worse it gets and I'm thinking that there has to be some connection.....
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2006 09:36 pm
I'm not saying doggie is in grave danger -- just that more care should be taken given the type of epithelium that is infected and the relative pathogenicity of the likely agent.

I'm answering mainly for my own learning curve, but here's what Hirsh et al. have to say in Veterinary Microbiology, 2nd ed.:

Quote:
Candida albicans is associated with mucocutaneous areas, particularly of the alminetary and lower genital tract, of mammals and birds.
{...}
In dogs, candidiasis produces ulcerative lesions in the digestive and genital tract. Rarely, dogs develop septicemia with lesions in muscle, bones, skin, and lower urinary tract (especially those with diabetes mellitus).
{...}
Disease is linked to immune and hormonal inadequacies, reduced colonization resistance (a measure of the "health" of the normal flora), or intensive exposure of weakened hosts or vulnerable tissues. These conditions account for susceptibility of infants, diabetics, subjects on antibiotics and steroid regimes, patients with indwelling catheters, and mammary glands of lactating cows.
{...}
Correctin conditions underlying clinical candidiasis may in itself lead to reovery. ... Fluconazole (preferred) or flucytosine is useful for treating dogs r cats with lower urinary tract candidiasis.



Now, it doesn't seem like there's even a confirmation that there is a fungal involvement. It's very possible that the bacteria involved are simply not responding to the antibiotics. Did your vet submit swabs to a lab for culture and sensitivity testing? There may be a bug present that is resistant to whatever antibiotics are being administered.

Or your instinct could be correct, and the antibiotics are clearing out the normal bacterial flora of your dog's vagina and making way for yeasties -- a condition that would be further facilitated by your her signalment (an old dog should usually be considered immunocompromised) and the preceding bacterial infection (damaged tissue is far more susceptible to infection than is healthy tissue).





(Not questioning your vet, just chattin.')
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 08:06 am
They did indeed submit a culture and it came back showing nothing out of the ordinary organisims -- just that they were out of balance and leading to infections.

They put her on a 10 day course of antibiotics that had no effect so they put her on a 10 day course of Simplicef which is supposed to be a very major antibiotic. Things cleared up for a few weeks then we were right back where we started.

She is just now about to finish up a 14 day round of Simplicef and again, things seem to be clearing up -- the funky smell and discharge are gone and the skin looks healthy. We've also been rinsing her off daily with Domeboro as suggested by the vet.

I do trust this vet but I don't have any problem questioning treatments or suggesting supplemental treatment.

Since I know that acidophilus won't hurt her in any way I'm going to continue to use it while she finishes up the antibiotics.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 11:02 am
boomerang wrote:
My other dog, who is 14, and the sister (from different litters) to this dog has a similar recessed vulvar construction but we have always been able to keep her clean and healthy without much effort or problem.


This very particular issue came up in one of the searches I did last night, but I didn't post it as it seemed a bit of an oddity. I'll see if it's in the history of my computer when I get home tonight. It was in a specific discussion of dogs/yeast ...
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 11:17 am
Thanks eBeth - I'll keep an eye out for that.

I came across some good information about it on, I think, a Mastiff breeder's website.

Other than what you've said about your dog's ears and antibiotics I haven't come across anything that links the two.

Frustrating!
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 01:07 pm
boomerang wrote:
They did indeed submit a culture and it came back showing nothing out of the ordinary organisims -- just that they were out of balance and leading to infections.

They put her on a 10 day course of antibiotics that had no effect so they put her on a 10 day course of Simplicef which is supposed to be a very major antibiotic. Things cleared up for a few weeks then we were right back where we started.

She is just now about to finish up a 14 day round of Simplicef and again, things seem to be clearing up -- the funky smell and discharge are gone and the skin looks healthy. We've also been rinsing her off daily with Domeboro as suggested by the vet.

I do trust this vet but I don't have any problem questioning treatments or suggesting supplemental treatment.

Since I know that acidophilus won't hurt her in any way I'm going to continue to use it while she finishes up the antibiotics.



Ah. It doesn't sound like there's anything to suggest that there's a yeastie flare-up due to the antibiotics. I understand why your vet has suggested surgery.

Quick Q -- do you presently give your dog any supplements or herbal meds? (Fish oil or flaxseed oil, for instance?)
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 03:41 pm
No she doesn't take any supplements. This dog has never ever had any health issues until now.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 03:47 pm
boomer, do you know if the vet has considered yeast? was the culture assessed for that?

I know that docs for humans don't often make the connection, so making it's crossed the vet's thought process would probably be helpful.

Is there a holistic vet that can be consulted? Naturopath? I'm not usually fond of that route, but a friend's German Shepherd really benefitted by some tinctures from a naturopath - so I'm not ruling it out anymore.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 03:52 pm
My neice works for an incredible holistic vet in Austin!!

I'm going to give her a call.....
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 03:53 pm
Oh! And I know doctors don't think about yeast!

I have never had a doctor tell me to take acidopilus along with antibiotics. A friend who is a pharmacist filled me in on that.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 05:57 pm
Niece seems to think I am on the right track but she is going to ask Dr. C tomorrow.

My dog will have to go in for a recheck later this week so I will bring it up with her doctor then.

Thanks eBeth and patiodog!
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 06:40 pm
I'm really not sure that the several week time course between antibiotics and flareup (or remission) supports yeasties.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the timeline.


Good luck.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 07:48 pm
I think you could be misunderstanding.

This all started up around the first of February. Since then we have had two 10 day courses of antibiotics and one 14 day course (that ends tomorrow). That comes to what --- 35 days of antibiotics over the last 50 days?
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