0
   

Sickle-cell a "beneficial mutation"??

 
 
Greyfan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 06:59 pm
I'd like to hear the intelligent design explanation of sickle cell anemia. And malaria too, if its not too much trouble.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 08:57 pm
farmerman wrote:
Quote:
since we've moved from the most depressed (or depressing) state of the union.


Thats bullshit. (unless you lived in Altoona), even Altoona is surrounded by endless mountains that attract way more visitors for natural beauty than does georgia.Wait till the heat gets you or the "Unplanned development". Georgias like Texas, zoning is for wimps


You may be right, there might possibly be a more depressing state than that one. And there is natural beauty during the 4 months that the sun shows its face. Yes, I'm exaggerating. Unfortunately, said natural beauty can't make up for the rest of it.

The heat here is fine by me as I was born and raised in Florida, least planned state of the union. Boy I'm just handing these titles out like candy. Do you think this thread has been sufficiently derailed?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 09:00 pm
The barrier islands are among the most lovely areas in this world and other worlds!!

The mountains in the north are breathtaking!!!


Curses!!
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 09:01 pm
Yep. And I've seen the water in the Chatahoochee, and it isn't the color of rust.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 09:03 pm
<my state stands vindicated>

<righteous pose, like Granny Clampett, when she whupped that drunk bastard U.S. Grant>

<requires shotgun>

Anyway, FD, welcome. Hope you love it. We'll have to do Savannah together sometimes.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 09:22 pm
So far I do. I shall see you in Savannah one day. I've been through it many a time and always have loved it.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 10:01 pm
http://www.cumberlandisland.org/island4.html

I shall do a Georgia Points of Interest thread, which takes a lot of nerve, since I never go anywhere.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 10:03 pm
Is that the one that nobody is allowed to build on anymore? I keep meaning to get there with the kids, especially now that they're big enough to enjoy it.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 10:15 pm
Greyfan wrote:
I'd like to hear the intelligent design explanation of sickle cell anemia. And malaria too, if its not too much trouble.


Simple enough. The actual evidence we have indicates the following:

That somewhere in recent prehistoric times, the engineering and re-engineering of complex life forms was some sort of an industry or ongoing process on this planet, and that more than one pair of hands was involved. There is, for example, no rational way to picture a loving and omnipotent God creating biting flies, mosquitos, chiggers, ticks, or disease vectors and organisms. Whoever created those things was some sort of an a$$hole.

And that all such activity stopped somewhere prior to the dawn of recorded history, and that no such processes are currently in motion. The only change in living forms which is taking place at present is due to microevolution which nobody questions, and the experimentation of man.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2006 10:21 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Is that the one that nobody is allowed to build on anymore? I keep meaning to get there with the kids, especially now that they're big enough to enjoy it.

Yes. I won't muck up gunga's thread anymore, but they only have one really fine antebellum estate, which has been converted into a really elegant inn--The Greyfield--and an old church--where JFK, Jr was married--no phones on the island. It is probably as close as one can find in such pritine shape. You have to ferry over there.

There are about five or so other barrier islands. I'll start that Georgia thread.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2006 06:25 am
so, if I understand Gunga,
1 Engineering and reengineering of species was terminated in prehistoric times

2 only micro evolution still occurs today

3 "someone" of a malificent nature came up with mal-aria.

Just wanna know.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2006 08:44 am
Well then, who's the asshole came up with cancer?
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2006 09:25 am
Mal-aria is just a crappy song, ain't it? So just quit your quine-ing.









(terrible. just terrible.)
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2006 12:23 pm
farmerman wrote:
so, if I understand Gunga,
1 Engineering and reengineering of species was terminated in prehistoric times

2 only micro evolution still occurs today

3 "someone" of a malificent nature came up with mal-aria.

Just wanna know.


Like I say, that is what the evidence suggests.
0 Replies
 
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2006 01:13 pm
Gunga are you Raelian?

Rap
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2006 07:33 pm
What Hitler saw in Darwinism
Evolution is junk science and, as junk science goes, it's dangerous junk science. It was the basic philosophical cornerstone of naziism, communism, the eugenics movements of the previous two centuries, and all manner of other grief.

To even comprehend evolutionite BS sufficiently to argue against them, you have to allow your mind to wander into a sort of a fairytale realm, in which such things as beneficial mutations actually exist. That ideology also demands that substituting gentic change through any sort of a large herd of animals HAS to cause the animals with the old genetic basis to die out, since otherwise, we would see individuals at every step of an evolutionary process actually walking around, and we don't. In theory that is, the so-called "selective advantage" of the new genetic mutation has to slowly kill off the old stock, and it's hard to say whether they're supposed to all die of jealousy or what the hell exactly.

In real life, when some slight (microevolutionary) change in a human population takes place, our present racial divisions for instance, then people of all types simply keep on walking around and going about their business. Moreover, in real life, the normal English term for "mutation" is "birth defect". I mean, I've never yet had the women from the Mothers' March of Dimes come to my door asking for donations for research to CAUSE mutations.....

The hell of it is, reading through this stuff, I've gotten a glimpse of what Hitler and some of the other 20'th century leaders were looking at, assuming you take that sort of BS seriously that is, and the nazis did. If old racial stocks are supposed to die out when new and better stock comes on the scene, then you're not doing members of the old stock any favors by prolonging the agony. Kind of like the thing General LeMay said about the firebomb raids over Japan when he noted you weren't doing a dog with a cancerous tail any favors by cutting the tail off in slices.

In other words, neither Stalin nor Hitler were guilty of any failure of logic; the only thing in which they erred was in buying off on Chuck Darwin's BS and Chuck, in my estimation, is a legitimate candidate for stupidest white man ever to walk the Earth.
0 Replies
 
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2006 08:51 pm
Ah! the Old Hitler/Stalin believed in evolution argument. That one Gunge is very old and very debumnked argument
Quote:
Creationists, Hitler and Evolution

by Lenny Flank

(c) 1999


A common charge made by creationists is that evolutionary theory is "evil" and is the source of racism in general, and of dictatorial killers in particular. The most often-heard assertion is that Hitler and his racist genocide were the product of "evolutionary philosophy". Henry Morris, for instance, flatly declares, "However one may react morally against Hitler, he was certainly a consistent evolutionst." (Morris, "Evolution and Modern racism", ICR Impact, October 1973) Morris adds: "The philosophies of Karl Marx and Friedrich Nietzsche--the forerunners of Stalin and Hitler--have been particularly baleful in their effect: both were dedicated evolutionists." (Morris, Troubled Waters of Evolution, 1974 p. 33)


How accurate is this creationist finger-pointing? Not very. The creationists are apparently unaware of the fact that Stalinist Russia rejected Darwinian evolution as "bourgeois" and instead embraced the non-Darwinian "proletarian biology" of Lysenko and Michurin (a disaster from which Russian genetics and biological sciences has still not completely recovered). As for Hitler, even a cursory reading of his book Mein Kampf reveals that the true source of Hitler's inspiration and exhortations came from a source that creationists, understandably, would rather not talk about.


Hitler's goal was the "purification" of the "Aryan race" through the elimination of "subhumans", which included Jews, gypsies, Asians, black Africans, and everyone else who was not a white Aryan. Despite the creationists claims that this was based on Darwinain evolutionary theory, Hitler's own writings give quite a different story. The ICR claims that "Hitler used the German word for evolution (Entwicklung) over and over again in his book." (ICR Impact, "The Ascent of Racism", Paul Humber Feb 1987) Like so many of ICR's claims, this one is simply not true---a quick scan of several online English translations of Mein Kampf shows only ONE use of the word "evolution", in a context which does not refer at all to biological evolution, but instead to the development of political ideas in Germany: "This evolution has not yet taken the shape of a conscious intention and movement to restore the political power and independence of our nation."


Had ICR made even a cursory reading of Mein Kampf, they would have seen a quite different source for Hitler's racist inspiration than the one they would have us believe. White Aryans, Hitler writes, are the special creations of God, the "highest image of the Lord", put here specifically to rule over the "subhuman" races: "Human culture and civilization on this continent are inseparably bound up with the presence of the Aryan. If he dies out or declines, the dark veils of an age without culture will again descend on this globe. The undermining of the existence of human culture by the destruction of its bearer seems in the eyes of a folkish philosophy the most execrable crime. Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise." (all quotes from Hitler, Mein Kampf, online version) Actions which aid the "subhumans" at the expense of the Aryan master race, Hitler declared, were an offense against God: " It is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator if His most gifted beings by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands are allowed to degenerate in the present proletarian morass, while Hottentots and Zulu Kaffirs are trained for intellectual professions."


Rather than basing his racism on any evolutionary theory, Hitler based it squarely on his view of white Aryans as the favored people of God. In fact, Hitler solemnly declares that his program of removing Jews and other "subhumans" from the earth is a divine task forced upon him by the Lord Almighty: "What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproductionof our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purityof our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that ourpeople may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the Creator of the universe."


Hitler concludes: "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord," adding "Compared to the absurd catchword about safeguarding law and order, thus laying a peaceable groundwork for mutual swindles, the task of preserving and advancing the highest humanity, given to this earth by the benevolence of the Almighty, seems a truly high mission." For Hitler, removing the subhumans from earth was not a matter of biology or evolution---it was a divine mandate from God Himself, the "work of the Lord", a "truly high mission".


Even in discussing racial purity and "race-mixing", Hitler chooses not the words of evolutionary biology or eugenics, but points instead to his divinely holy mission: "Historical experience offers countless proofs of this. It shows with terrifying clarity that in every mingling of Aryan blood with that of lower peoples the result was the end of the cultured people. North America, whose population consists in by far the largest part of Germanic elements who mixed but little with the lower colored peoples, shows a different humanity and culture from Central and South America, where the predominantly Latin immigrants often mixed with the aborigines on a large scale. By this one example, we can clearly and distinctly recognize the effect of racial mixture. The Germanic inhabitant of the American continent, who has remained racially pure and unmixed, rose to be master of the continent; he will remain the master as long as he does not fall a victim to defilement of the blood. The result of all racial crossing is therefore in brief always the following: To bring about such a development is, then, nothing else but to sin against the will of the Eternal Creator."


The goal of the "folkish government", then, Hitler declares is to "finally to put an end to the constant and continuous original sin of racial poisoning, and to give the Almighty Creator beings such as He Himself created."


"The folkish-minded man, in particular," Hitler concludes, "has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."


In Mein Kampf, Hitler makes an emotional appeal to God to aid him and his Nazis in their divine task: "Then, from the child's story-book to the last newspaper in the country, and every theatre and cinema, every pillar where placards are posted and every free space on the hoardings should be utilized in the service of this one great mission, until the faint-hearted cry, "Lord, deliver us," which our patriotic associations send up to Heaven to-day would be transformed into an ardent prayer: 'Almighty God, bless our arms when the hour comes. ' " Later, when Nazi troops swarmed over Europe, each of them wore an army-issue belt buckle inscribed with the words "God is With Us".


The invocation of God and the Bible in support of racism continues with modern hate groups in the US. Aryan Nations, which also calls itself the Church of Jesus Christ Christian, begins its web site by proclaiming "Praise Yahweh" and its intention to "serve the Lord of Glory and His Holy Race". The American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan note that only those of "Christian faith" can be members, and asks every new recruit "Do you believe in Jesus Christ?" The White Camelia Knights of the Ku Klux Klan declare that "at some point God's people must take action in the defense of our Christian, racial and political beliefs". The Camelia KKK website also explicitly states "We base our beliefs on our Biblical interpretations, not ignorance, superstition or blind hatred." How does the Camelia KKK justify its opposition to "race-mixing"? "White Christian Israelites are under God's law and covenant. The other peoples of the earth are under nature's law, which God also created. . . Nature's law, which is a creation of YAHWEH, dictates that kind reproduce after kind. The different people of the world were never supposed to mix." The Imperial Klans of America declares, "We are a gathering of White Christian men and women." The National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan website declares that they "reverently acknowledge the majesty and supremacy of Almighty God and recognize his goodness and providence through his Son Jesus Christ. We avow the distinction between the races of mankind as decreed by the Lord our God, and we shall ever be true to the maintenance of His Supremacy."

None of these racist websites mentions "Darwin" or "evolution" as a justification for any of their beliefs. All of them talk about "God" and "The Creator" instead.Creationists, Hitler and Evolution

by Lenny Flank

(c) 1999


A common charge made by creationists is that evolutionary theory is "evil" and is the source of racism in general, and of dictatorial killers in particular. The most often-heard assertion is that Hitler and his racist genocide were the product of "evolutionary philosophy". Henry Morris, for instance, flatly declares, "However one may react morally against Hitler, he was certainly a consistent evolutionst." (Morris, "Evolution and Modern racism", ICR Impact, October 1973) Morris adds: "The philosophies of Karl Marx and Friedrich Nietzsche--the forerunners of Stalin and Hitler--have been particularly baleful in their effect: both were dedicated evolutionists." (Morris, Troubled Waters of Evolution, 1974 p. 33)


How accurate is this creationist finger-pointing? Not very. The creationists are apparently unaware of the fact that Stalinist Russia rejected Darwinian evolution as "bourgeois" and instead embraced the non-Darwinian "proletarian biology" of Lysenko and Michurin (a disaster from which Russian genetics and biological sciences has still not completely recovered). As for Hitler, even a cursory reading of his book Mein Kampf reveals that the true source of Hitler's inspiration and exhortations came from a source that creationists, understandably, would rather not talk about.


Hitler's goal was the "purification" of the "Aryan race" through the elimination of "subhumans", which included Jews, gypsies, Asians, black Africans, and everyone else who was not a white Aryan. Despite the creationists claims that this was based on Darwinain evolutionary theory, Hitler's own writings give quite a different story. The ICR claims that "Hitler used the German word for evolution (Entwicklung) over and over again in his book." (ICR Impact, "The Ascent of Racism", Paul Humber Feb 1987) Like so many of ICR's claims, this one is simply not true---a quick scan of several online English translations of Mein Kampf shows only ONE use of the word "evolution", in a context which does not refer at all to biological evolution, but instead to the development of political ideas in Germany: "This evolution has not yet taken the shape of a conscious intention and movement to restore the political power and independence of our nation."


Had ICR made even a cursory reading of Mein Kampf, they would have seen a quite different source for Hitler's racist inspiration than the one they would have us believe. White Aryans, Hitler writes, are the special creations of God, the "highest image of the Lord", put here specifically to rule over the "subhuman" races: "Human culture and civilization on this continent are inseparably bound up with the presence of the Aryan. If he dies out or declines, the dark veils of an age without culture will again descend on this globe. The undermining of the existence of human culture by the destruction of its bearer seems in the eyes of a folkish philosophy the most execrable crime. Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise." (all quotes from Hitler, Mein Kampf, online version) Actions which aid the "subhumans" at the expense of the Aryan master race, Hitler declared, were an offense against God: " It is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator if His most gifted beings by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands are allowed to degenerate in the present proletarian morass, while Hottentots and Zulu Kaffirs are trained for intellectual professions."


Rather than basing his racism on any evolutionary theory, Hitler based it squarely on his view of white Aryans as the favored people of God. In fact, Hitler solemnly declares that his program of removing Jews and other "subhumans" from the earth is a divine task forced upon him by the Lord Almighty: "What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproductionof our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purityof our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that ourpeople may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the Creator of the universe."


Hitler concludes: "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord," adding "Compared to the absurd catchword about safeguarding law and order, thus laying a peaceable groundwork for mutual swindles, the task of preserving and advancing the highest humanity, given to this earth by the benevolence of the Almighty, seems a truly high mission." For Hitler, removing the subhumans from earth was not a matter of biology or evolution---it was a divine mandate from God Himself, the "work of the Lord", a "truly high mission".


Even in discussing racial purity and "race-mixing", Hitler chooses not the words of evolutionary biology or eugenics, but points instead to his divinely holy mission: "Historical experience offers countless proofs of this. It shows with terrifying clarity that in every mingling of Aryan blood with that of lower peoples the result was the end of the cultured people. North America, whose population consists in by far the largest part of Germanic elements who mixed but little with the lower colored peoples, shows a different humanity and culture from Central and South America, where the predominantly Latin immigrants often mixed with the aborigines on a large scale. By this one example, we can clearly and distinctly recognize the effect of racial mixture. The Germanic inhabitant of the American continent, who has remained racially pure and unmixed, rose to be master of the continent; he will remain the master as long as he does not fall a victim to defilement of the blood. The result of all racial crossing is therefore in brief always the following: To bring about such a development is, then, nothing else but to sin against the will of the Eternal Creator."


The goal of the "folkish government", then, Hitler declares is to "finally to put an end to the constant and continuous original sin of racial poisoning, and to give the Almighty Creator beings such as He Himself created."


"The folkish-minded man, in particular," Hitler concludes, "has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."


In Mein Kampf, Hitler makes an emotional appeal to God to aid him and his Nazis in their divine task: "Then, from the child's story-book to the last newspaper in the country, and every theatre and cinema, every pillar where placards are posted and every free space on the hoardings should be utilized in the service of this one great mission, until the faint-hearted cry, "Lord, deliver us," which our patriotic associations send up to Heaven to-day would be transformed into an ardent prayer: 'Almighty God, bless our arms when the hour comes. ' " Later, when Nazi troops swarmed over Europe, each of them wore an army-issue belt buckle inscribed with the words "God is With Us".


The invocation of God and the Bible in support of racism continues with modern hate groups in the US. Aryan Nations, which also calls itself the Church of Jesus Christ Christian, begins its web site by proclaiming "Praise Yahweh" and its intention to "serve the Lord of Glory and His Holy Race". The American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan note that only those of "Christian faith" can be members, and asks every new recruit "Do you believe in Jesus Christ?" The White Camelia Knights of the Ku Klux Klan declare that "at some point God's people must take action in the defense of our Christian, racial and political beliefs". The Camelia KKK website also explicitly states "We base our beliefs on our Biblical interpretations, not ignorance, superstition or blind hatred." How does the Camelia KKK justify its opposition to "race-mixing"? "White Christian Israelites are under God's law and covenant. The other peoples of the earth are under nature's law, which God also created. . . Nature's law, which is a creation of YAHWEH, dictates that kind reproduce after kind. The different people of the world were never supposed to mix." The Imperial Klans of America declares, "We are a gathering of White Christian men and women." The National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan website declares that they "reverently acknowledge the majesty and supremacy of Almighty God and recognize his goodness and providence through his Son Jesus Christ. We avow the distinction between the races of mankind as decreed by the Lord our God, and we shall ever be true to the maintenance of His Supremacy."

None of these racist websites mentions "Darwin" or "evolution" as a justification for any of their beliefs. All of them talk about "God" and "The Creator" instead.


Still you haven't answered my question "Are you a Raelian?" Because you sound like a Raelian.

Rap
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2006 09:02 pm
Holy ****.

Have any of you heard of Raelians?

I just googled it.

____________________

Who are the Raelians?

The Raelian movement is the founder of the Clonaid company which claims to have produced the first cloned baby.

The movement claims to have about 40,000 members in several countries, although the number is difficult to verify.

The sect, which believes humans were created by extra-terrestrial beings who had mastered genetic engineering, was founded in France in 1973 by a former journalist who worked for a racing car magazine.

One December morning in 1973, journalist Claude Vorilhon was on his way to work in the French provincial town of Clermont-Ferrand.

But - according to a book written by Mr Vorilhon, who is now known as Rael - instead of going to the office, on an impulse, he drove to a nearby volcano.


International movement

There, he says, he was contacted by an extra-terrestrial being who emerged from a flying saucer and told him - in fluent French - that humans were created in laboratories by people from another planet.

The creators were known as the Elohim - a word which, in ancient Hebrew, meant "those who came from the sky".

It is used in Jewish prayers to refer to God.

Mr Vorilhon was told to spread the word of the Elohim on Earth in preparation for their return.

He describes them as being little over a metre in height, with pale green skin, almond-shaped eyes and long dark hair.

Since then the Raelians have grown into an international movement. Rael himself has reportedly relocated to the United States after complaining of harassment by the French authorities.


Eternal life

The Raelians' interest in cloning seems to stem from their belief that the human soul perishes when the body dies.

Therefore, they believe, the key to eternal life is not the soul but the recreation of individuals from their DNA.

In 1997, the group founded Clonaid, which now says it has cloned a human being.

In 1990, the Raelians changed their symbol, originally a Swastika inside a Star of David.

The idea was to improve relations with Israel and persuade the government there to let them build an embassy for the Elohim in Jerusalem.
Source: Who Are The Raelians?, BBC News, Dec. 28, 2002
__________________________

Of course, the aliens speak perfect FRENCH!!!! Laughing

Thanks raprap.
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2006 09:05 pm
There, he says, he was contacted by an extra-terrestrial being who emerged from a flying saucer and told him - in fluent French - that humans were created in laboratories by people from another planet.

Sounds plausible
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2006 09:07 pm
Suck it, FRENCHIE!!!!!




<except for Francis>
0 Replies
 
 

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