Ideological Conformity- Not ____Enough

Belafonte/Powell
Belafonte is troubled by the lack of ethics in the Bush administration and Powell's willingness to support it. It is not a simple matter of Powell disagrees with Belafonte and therefore gets called names. If he were a conservative doing normal things there would be no great conflict. But Powell is kowtowing to one of the most corrupt administrations this country will ever know. The days of slavery may be a thing of the past to most whites and some blacks, but the ill treatment of those times has far from vanished. My good friend, Ed D----, is from Mississippi. He is a self made man. When one of his clients sought to induce him to move out of Houston to one of the smaller communities pretty far out there he said, "I know those people don't want me there and I won't try to live among them." This was not long before the man in Vidor was dragged to death behind a pick-up truck. Ed told me of the days growing up when he and his family had to turn the lights out at sunset and hide as quietly as possible because people from town would be roaming about hoping to catch some black folks to beat up and occasionally lynch. Many jobs I have worked blacks would be told by the bosses they were not hiring and whites would sometimes be hired a few hours later. The job I work right now has racism laced through it, very subtle, hard to hold someone accountable, but blatant to those in the know. Slavery is not so far back there as all that.

Edgarblythe- I can remember the days of Jim Crow, and blacks having separate bathrooms and water fountains in the South. The fact remains is that since the 1960's, blacks have had tremendous opportunities, if only they would choose to grab them.

I am well aware that there is still a lot of subtle, and not so subtle prejudice in the U.S., be it race, religion, sexual preference, or gender. It is a lot easier for an insecure person to discount an entire group of individuals, rather than have to evaluate themselves one-on-one with each person that they meet.

The fact remains that black people CAN make it in the U.S., and would have a lot easier time of it than ever in the past. The only thing that they need to do is to throw away their victim mentality, which is reinforced by many black leaders, and "go for it"!

The issue is I do believe in the black community is that come people of color kow tow to the white master in order to be in a position of power. The expression "house nigger" is frequently used among blacks to describe Clarence Thomas. When Justice Thomas' appointment to the Cour was in trouble it was his white supportors who brought up and played the race card. The people of color who entered the fray were termed "house niggers". That is how it played in D.C. anyway. I was there so I am not sure how it looked from the rest of the country.

Quote from Setanta:
"The major problem i see in this is the legacy of militant radicalism from the sixties."

True, it did seem to stem from that time. As it has grown, it has become so imbedded that change is almost impossible.

(Come to CT next summer and I'll fix you and the little Canajun a pitcher of pina coladas.)

Edgar, I don't think anyone here is denying that racism is alive and well in this country, but that, among other things, political correctness has been a destructive element in the effort to make sensible changes.

People like Al Sharpton are cynically out for their own political agenda, saying what people want to hear, making them feel entitled, like victims. That is as destructive as all the Jones Colleges in the country.

I heard a Puerto Rican woman talking about the fact that she believed the country was trying to take away her culture by denying bilingual education to her children all the way through high school. If I had been able to respond to her I would have asked her to take a look at all the Italian families who have maintained their ethnic identity, but who all speak English. I know many of these families. They speak Italian in their homes but never in the business community. Their cultural heritage is as strong as ever. They are very proud of being Italian, but understand that English is the language used throughout most of the world, especially in the business community.

Yes, Bush seems intent on going to war with Iraq. The Republicans don't seem to have as much concern for immigrants as Democrats, but it comes down to taking responsibility for your own life, no matter the obstructions in the way. There are so many examples out there that make it clear the Al Sharptons of the world are actually harming their own constituents.

Belafonte/Powell
You can't erase 400 years of oppression in a generation. You can't erase racial stereotyping from a predjudiced person's mind. While I do agree with you that a black person can make it more readily today than in the past, I think you do not understand the power of generations of conditioning. To put a macrocosm in a microcosm, let me use myself for an illustration. My color is of no consequence in the analogy.
I came from a family of migrant workers, poor people by definition. My mother had a heart of gold, but, she had not the ability to make the sort of contact with me that I needed. No playful interacting, no conversations, no training to do anything at all. I do not remember my father, but he was a drunken and abusive person. I doubt that I felt very secure around him. At age four I gained a step father who intimidated me from the first. As with my mother, he trained me for nothing, no playful interacting, no talk; just orders. We remained the poorest of the poor. (Not whining; this is an important point for later on). By the time I reached the age of twelve I still could not hold a conversation with anyone. Those who singled me out for friendship were given answers to questions, but no volunteered talking. They quickly drifted away. Then my stepfather, who had always teased me without mercy decided that I would be the stupid one in the family. He began to call me "Snurd" or sometimes "Mort" after the puppet character on the Edger Bergen - Charlie McCarthy Show. His every word was aimed at belittling me and making me appear to be a half wit. In high school I went from class to class without looking at others, without speaking to them. I don't know what they thought of me. In time we left my stepfather in CA and went back to Texas. I was free of the oppressor. I did not know how to behave "free". I remained silent, quitting school at almost 16 and going to work for my grandfather for $7 hr. When told what to do I worked willingly. But all effort to think and act had been so long suppressed in me that I could not take the initiative. The others complained that I was not productive and began to suggest that I was dumb. I was bounced between relatives because thay had no patience to put up with me. I read (for me) liberating words by Philip Wylie and I yearned to be my own person, with friends and a successful career. But failure was written all over me. I eventually joined the Navy, expecting I would learn enough to set me in the right direction when once I got out. They stuck me in the deck crew. I tried to study and be prepared for jr college, which I passed the entry test but did not attend any classes. It seemed just an impossible task to support myself with no knowledge of job hunting, no communication skills (Couldn't look at anyone's face at all). Acted nervous before strangers. Conditioning makes one in that situation remain unable to advance in the world. One in that condition makes a parent who raises children who recieve much of the load of conditioning to carry. It is not a question of being lazy or unaware of opportunities in life. This a major reason why the poor stay poor. This is why black ex slaves still carry much of the burden of slavery. In my case I was over forty before I finally overcame the conditioning of my childhood. Many never make it at all, not for lack of trying, either.

edgarblythe
please keep writing...

Thank you edgar.

I'd been getting kind of depressed reading this, but found that it was hard to put together my objections in the short little smatterings of time I've had today, and you bring up some really good points. I'd still like to get to my objections, but nice to know I'm not the only one.

OK, just to start, with bi-lingualism (which is huge right there...) There was a case about 25 years ago, the Rowley case, in which a deaf girl sued to have interpreters provided for her. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court, and the ruling was in favor of the school -- no interpreters need be provided. Why? Because she was doing "fine". Her parents were deaf, too, and she'd had excellent language exposure, and was managing to keep up pretty well even though she didn't know what the teachers were saying.

She was also extraordinarily smart (I know her quite well), and probably would have been able to make do in any educational situation. But this one -- no interpreters, stranded without language -- really, really sucked, and cheated innumerable smart-but-not-as-smart (especially those who were born to hearing parents, 90% of the total) deaf kids of a decent education.

Do we really think that's OK... to point to the fact that some especially smart/ linguistically gifted people made do just fine to justify making things incredibly difficult for everyone, and devastatingly difficult for many?

Edgarblythe, your story is heartbreaking and I thank you for sharing it with us. As Husker said, please keep writing.

Your story is also a fine example of the result of conditioning. I hope you understand that I agree completely with you that blacks and other minorities have been treated with callous disregard in this country. I agree that after years of being treated like second-class citizens, poor blacks especially have come to believe that they don't quite stack up to the rest of us. I think you can see this same reaction in the Appalachia's, a kind of distrust of outsiders and a defensiveness that serves as a shield against hurt.

Knowing all that, do you believe that people like Al Sharpton really have the best interests of their constituents in mind? Do you believe that programs that have been proven not to work should remain in place just because wonderfully idealistic people worked very hard developing them?

I am in favor of programs that help students who aren't doing as well in school as they should be, for any number of reasons; whether they are developmentally disabled, black, Hispanic or have other physical or mental problems. I think schools should have budgets to support these programs, but I think it is a disservice to the students to keep going back to poorly designed programs that only serve to delay their inclusion in the mainstream classes where they have a chance to become competitive with other students.

Sozobe's story of the girl who was deaf is an example of shortsightedness found in so many schools. I have never thought something like that was acceptable. My only problem is that too many of these programs have become such a part of the establishment that they have taken on a life of their own. They have lost sight of whom they are supposed to help. They don't give the students they are supposed to help any credit for being able to move beyond that safety net.

In a way, your story applies to what I am saying. After years of being stuck in ineffective programs, the students in the programs begin to think they can't go on to something more difficult. They become dependent on the old safety net and lose their confidence.

There are many different viewpoints here. Our backgrounds obviously affect how we think about these issues. My two older brothers have mental retardation. At the time they were born, in the mid thirties, there were very few services. After a few years, they were put into an institution, where they stayed for many years. While in the institution, I saw them slowly lose what skills they had developed at home. They were safe and protected (most of the time) and they had simple little workshops, but never anything stimulating.

Over the years, professionals began to discover that people with mental retardation were quite capable of performing a variety of jobs and that, when they had the opportunity to live more independent lives, in the community in which they grew up, with proper training, they surpassed everyone's expectations.

My point is that I don't wish to do away with programs that provide needed help; I just refuse to go along with programs that need to face up to their failure and make the changes necessary to best serve the people they are supposed to help.

Belafonte/Powell
I happen to think white people pick out certain black leaders who have egregious faults to focus on while ignoring the many fine men and women who are black leaders but who have no such faults. Sharpton has never impressed me in a favorable way, but I confess that I do not follow his exploits as carefully as his detractors do. I suspect that most black citizens are not hung up on this man either, any more than most conservatives are hung up on Rush Limbaugh.
I am not in the field of education. There are others who can make better suggestions than me.

Doesn't it seem possible that we don't have to pick out leaders like Sharpton? They do seem to thrust themselves to the the forefront, while other leaders who happen to be black, but noted for their achievements rather than their color, are picked out by by such as Harry Belafonte.

roger- Agree. I think that most people, regardless of race, do their work unobtrusively, and are not looking for accolades. Sharpton and Jackson, on the other hand, IMO, are more concerned about their OWN power, prestige, and self aggrandisement. The pity is, that some of their constituency has bought into what, to me, is smoke and mirrors.

Belafonte/Powell
I don't know what you mean by "such as Harry Belafonte", but Belafonte is a man of the utmost integrity. White people have a way of taking a single utterance by a black man and defining their entire character from it. Anyone who has followed Belafonte over a lifetime as I have knows the truth. His essential philosophy mirrors that of Martin Luther King, a man who deserves the sort of recognition given the founding fathers. He is not deserving of the contempt I have seen heaped on him lately. I believe it is more a question of whse ideology feels the pinch than actual rational examination of the situation.

I wonder what a "non-Jew is"?. Is he or she the same as a non-catholic. What is a non-catholic. The ramifications are frightening!

edgarblythe- I had always considered Belafonte a man of integrity. That was why I was so taken aback by his remark.

The problem in the U.S. is that entertainment stars have a lot of clout with the man on the street. In actuality, their political opinions are probably no more valid than yours or mine. But they do have the exposure, and the influence.

IMO, celebrities need to be more circumspect in voicing their political opinions, outside of their own social circles. I think that Belafonte owes Rice and Powell an apology!

Addendum- I would not have been upset if Belafonte had addressed the issues with which he was in contention. But he chose to attack the people PERSONALLY. The remarks were mean spirited, and designed to rabble rouse, a ploy which succeeded.

If I wanted to observe that sort of behavior, all I need to do is go to many of the Abuzz political threads!

Belafonte/Powell
In the first place, Belafonte has not been "just a singer" all these years. He has been active with UNICEF for children, has chaired committies and the like. For quite a few years he did not record, but mainly involved himself in issues work, not entertainment. It is not a case of I sing "Banana Boat" so I am an authority on everything, related or not. Conservatives have jumped on the house servant analogy for its shock value and glossed over Belafonte's true complaint: the lack of moral integrity (as non conservatives see it) of Powell himself. If anyone should change as a result of the incident it is Powell.

Belafonte/Powell
In short, I believe people are 'shocked' by Belafonte's words as a political ploy.

edgarblythe- So why didn't Belafonte simply air his concerns, rather that go on a personal attack? By his remarks, I have inferred that Belafonte considers Rice and Powell blacks first, politicians second.

Belafonte/Powell
You know as well as anyone that saying, "Powell is not on the right track for this and this reasons" will not be noticed by anyone. Just as the people attacking Belafonte on a personal level will get more coverage than addressing the underlying issue. The more we argue Belafonte's character the more the issue he sought to address is ignored. Not one person in all this has given a good reason why Powell is undeserving of criticism.

I rest my case. It looks like Belafonte has "shot himself in the foot". If he has something to say about the behavior of Rice and Powell, let him spell it out. What he has done inadvertently, I think, is to turn the focus away from the issues to his discourtesy. He took a chance by using the race card as a ploy, and it backfired.