1
   

An alternative to intelligence?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 04:47 am
JJ-

But what does "disordered" mean.Would Mozart,say,have shown up disordered.Or Einstein?

At the bottom line are you using "disordered" to mean not like you and the circle you approve of.
They said Galileo was disordered and Mr Churchill was considered a bit strange for a long time.

Are you an MRI salesperson?
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 09:25 am
Quote:
What do you make of the common claim that brain imaging/studies can differentiate disordered or dysfunctional thought?


This has already been explained in this thread (not only by myself), if you don't get it yet you either did not read fully or are unable to comprehend fully. In either case, re-explaining it would be pointless.
0 Replies
 
John Jones
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 12:17 pm
stuh505 wrote:
Quote:
What do you make of the common claim that brain imaging/studies can differentiate disordered or dysfunctional thought?


This has already been explained in this thread (not only by myself), if you don't get it yet you either did not read fully or are unable to comprehend fully. In either case, re-explaining it would be pointless.


I know. I read it. Now then. What do you make of the common claim that brain imaging/studies can differentiate disordered or dysfunctional thought?
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 03:03 pm
Well, I see how you could use brain imaging to differentiate between normal and disordered throught if you had a lot of sample data where all the other variables were controlled. So, for example if you imaged 1000 people thinking in an ordered way and 1000 people thinking in a disordered way, there would be correlatations.

Similarly, you could image 1000 birds to see what ordered thought patterns for birds looked like...but you cannot compare the results of humans to the results of birds, because their brains are organized differently...but being organized differently does not mean that they work fundamentally differently.
0 Replies
 
John Jones
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 03:11 pm
stuh505 wrote:
Well, I see how you could use brain imaging to differentiate between normal and disordered throught if you had a lot of sample data where all the other variables were controlled. So, for example if you imaged 1000 people thinking in an ordered way and 1000 people thinking in a disordered way, there would be correlatations.

Similarly, you could image 1000 birds to see what ordered thought patterns for birds looked like...but you cannot compare the results of humans to the results of birds, because their brains are organized differently...but being organized differently does not mean that they work fundamentally differently.


Fair enough. But the focus of the question, which was linked to my initial assumption in these threads, was on the common claim that brain imaging/studies themselves can differentiate disordered or dysfunctional thought.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 03:24 pm
Evening JJ.Just on my way out.

A thought cannot be dysfunctional surely.Under either meaning it has.It isn't an organ and it couldn't be an intention.What is a thought as well.

And who is defining disordered.The mad scientist I suppose.

See ya later.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 04:38 pm
Gee!

Has eveybody gone to ground?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 04:44 pm
no

what was it tonight spendy

abbot ale?

ipa

pint absinthe?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 05:06 pm
John Smith's Extra Smooth in a pub with a big sign claiming to be the Heart Of The Community and three English Roses with their tits three parts out and half a dozen nervous imitators.

Which isn't bad for a Wednesday with consumer spending at a somethingyear low.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 05:14 pm
hmm i think i know that pub

I like john smiths, just dont like waiting 1/2 hour while it settles.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 05:27 pm
Steve-

You should report your landlord to the control centre.I know it's grassing but there's limits to principled behaviour.
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 07:02 pm
Quote:
Fair enough. But the focus of the question, which was linked to my initial assumption in these threads, was on the common claim that brain imaging/studies themselves can differentiate disordered or dysfunctional thought.


The electrical response patterns that we can observe may be correlated to thought coherency, but they are not a measure of thought coherency.

However, since they may be correlated to thought coherency, they can be used as a tool to approximately measure thought coherency when other variables remain controlled.

Using the tool to measure thought coherency when the variables are known to be inconsistent with the variables used to make the correlation in the first place is nonsensical.
0 Replies
 
John Jones
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2005 02:36 pm
stuh505 wrote:
Quote:
Fair enough. But the focus of the question, which was linked to my initial assumption in these threads, was on the common claim that brain imaging/studies themselves can differentiate disordered or dysfunctional thought.


The electrical response patterns that we can observe may be correlated to thought coherency, but they are not a measure of thought coherency.

However, since they may be correlated to thought coherency, they can be used as a tool to approximately measure thought coherency when other variables remain controlled.

Using the tool to measure thought coherency when the variables are known to be inconsistent with the variables used to make the correlation in the first place is nonsensical.


The public are being misled into thinking that disorder of thought is a disorder of the brain which brain imaging can confirm.
To clear up a stray end, and quite a big stray end, we need to state that thought coherency as measured by brain imaging is a social yardstick and not a physical one.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2005 03:05 pm
I told you that ages ago JJ.And faster than that.
0 Replies
 
John Jones
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2005 04:49 pm
spendius wrote:
I told you that ages ago JJ.And faster than that.


No. This idea I put out well before anyone else here. I will sue if anyone steals it.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2005 04:52 pm
Come on JJ.

You haven't done your homework.

You're years behind.

Don't hire any legal teams.
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2005 06:49 pm
Quote:
To clear up a stray end, and quite a big stray end, we need to state that thought coherency as measured by brain imaging is a social yardstick and not a physical one.


I wasn't aware of anyone else who had that opinion besides yourself earlier in the thread!
0 Replies
 
John Jones
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2005 02:35 pm
Signing off this forum. Admin Do not move this bloody post to general because people here don't always read General. Anyone nicks my ideas and its your arse.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2005 05:00 pm
Bang on topic.Congrats JJ.
0 Replies
 
Bob Lablob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2005 07:14 pm
I'm taking JJ's ideas right now. He's gone so what the hell is he gonna do? Don't mess with me. I'm all liquored up and looking for trouble. Yup, I'm taking JJ's sorry assed ideas right now.
0 Replies
 
 

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