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Palaeontology strikes again: Dinosaurs had plumage.

 
 
DrewDad
 
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2005 12:01 pm
Dinosaurs may have been a fluffy lot

Jonathan Leake, Science Editor



THE popular image of Tyrannosaurus rex and other killer dinosaurs may have to be changed as a scientific consensus emerges that many were covered with feathers.
Most predatory dinosaurs such as tyrannosaurs and velociraptors have usually been depicted in museums, films and books as covered in a thick hide of dull brown or green skin. The impression was of a killer stripped of adornment in the name of hunting efficiency.



This week, however, a leading expert on dinosaur evolution will tell the British Association, the principal conference of British scientists, that this image is wrong.

Gareth Dyke, a palaeontologist of University College Dublin, will tell the BA Festival of Science being held in the city that most such creatures were coated with delicate feathery plumage that could even have been multi-coloured. Fossil evidence that such dinosaurs were feathered is now "irrefutable".

"The way these creatures are depicted can no longer be considered scientifically accurate," he said. "All the evidence is that they looked more like birds than reptiles. Tyrannosaurs might have resembled giant chicks."

The latest visualisation suggests that parts of Walking with Dinosaurs, the acclaimed BBC series, cannot be seen as scientifically valid. Similar criticisms might also be levelled at the Hollywood blockbuster Jurassic Park.

The Natural History Museum in London, which has a popular exhibition of robot dinosaurs, conceded this weekend that some of its permanent displays may have to be adapted to reflect the new findings.

The feather revelation follows a series of discoveries in fossil beds at Liaoning in northeast China where a volcanic eruption buried many dinosaurs alive. It also cut off the oxygen that would otherwise have rotted them away.

Some theropod ("beast-footed") dinosaurs were preserved complete with feathery plumage. Theropod is the name given to predatory creatures that walked upright on two legs, balanced by a long tail.

The feathered finds include an early tyrannosaur, a likely ancestor of Tyrannosaurus rex, two small flying dinosaurs and five other predators. Feathers are thought to have evolved first to keep dinosaurs warm and only later as an aid to flight.

Such finds are significant in linking dinosaurs to modern birds. Most palaeontologists accept that birds are descended from dinosaurs but there is fierce debate over how this happened. At the Dublin conference, Dyke will present new evidence suggesting that dinosaurs evolved the ability to fly and that some even developed all four limbs into wings.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2005 12:09 pm
This is old-ish news -- old enough that a dino book we have that was published a few years ago depicts a velociraptor as having feathers, anyway.

Cool, tho!

From what I've read, it doesn't necessarily establish a link to birds, though. Especially, from what I understand, "Most paleontologists accept that birds are descended from dinosaurs" is patently untrue. As in, it's a theory, but far from universally or even mostly accepted. Farmerman?

This whole area (feathers? link to birds? what made them go extinct?) is moving pretty fast, though, I'm sure a lot of what I've read is already out of date.

Are dinos cool or what?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2005 06:06 pm
It's an Irish joke more like sozzy.
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 11:52 am
Excellent! It makes perfect sense if, in fact, dinosaurs were warm-blooded.
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2005 11:52 am
Excellent! It makes perfect sense if, in fact, dinosaurs were warm-blooded.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 09:14 am
Amazing image: A T-Rex covered with multi-colored down like a giant chick. But I'm not sure I'm convinced of that just yet.

One of the Walking with Dinosaur episodes depicted velociraprots with feathers, and I feel the evidence for at least some of the therapods to have feathers is pretty solid. But this is the first time I've heard that all the dinosaurs may have had feathers or down. That would change the general vision of dinosaurs pretty dramatically, and in a most interesting way.

Thanks,
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 09:28 am
sozobe wrote:
This is old-ish news -- old enough that a dino book we have that was published a few years ago depicts a velociraptor as having feathers, anyway.


Actually that's very correct:

during half-day symposium at the BA Festival of Science, five international experts reviewed "recent discoveries of amazing fossils that preserve what normally rots away, and reveal how their findings are reshaping our view of the evolution of life on Earth".

Topics included the embryos of bizarre 500 million year old worms; dinosaurs with feathers; how pterosaurs, extinct winged reptiles the size of light aircraft, could fly; the fossil record of our earliest ancestors; and how the latest computer graphic techniques are used to reveal ancient organisms in all their three dimensional glory - but just one topic made it in the headlines :wink:
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 09:45 am
I guess now at Easter we'll be able to get T-Rex peeps.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 10:48 am
theres a credible theory that dinosaurs and birds were derived from a common ancestor. This was based upon the findings of bird like dinosaurs and then dinosaur like birds like archeopteryx. These occured in nice time slots that help support the theory. The theory has to rely on the earliest Permian synapsids being warm blooded, and then Triassic proto dinos and "bird like " dinos being warm blooded.

Because Jurassic dino fossils are found in areas of the world that were then in high latitudes (or very low latitudes), we can predict that, from bone structure that they were warm blooded and the feathers were appearing. A lot of the reason that we dont see many featherd T Rexes , is that they were usually fossilized in more energetic water deposits or in dust areas and feathers or other fine details weren preserved.

We do know that there were many duck billed or Miasaurs that were , at least in some cases, feathered. The fossils that were found in deeper anoxic lake deposits would preserve finer details. Just like all the new bird fossils being found near Liao Liang (sp?)
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 09:33 am
Hey, it's farmerman.

So, common ancestor, but not that birds are descended from dinos, right?

This sentence doesn't seem right to me:

Quote:
Most palaeontologists accept that birds are descended from dinosaurs but there is fierce debate over how this happened.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 11:26 am
actually most paleos do not accept that birds are direct descendants . Its more of a romanticised version that Bob Bakker had pushed.

Latest evidence shows a parallel evolution similar to humans and chimps
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 11:47 am
Actually, it really was just one short lecture within hundreds more at that festival:

Quote:
REWRITING THE HISTORY OF LIFE: EXCEPTIONALLY WELL-PRESERVED FOSSILS AND OUR UNDERSTANDING OF EVOLUTION - Organised by: Palaeontological Association
Date : 08/09/2005 - Time : 14.00-16.00
Location : Panoz Institute LT 1 - Cost : **€7.00
- Fossil embryos: Insights into evolution - Phil Donoghue, University of Bristol
- Feathered dinosaurs and birds: Insights from fossils - Gareth Dyke, University College Dublin
- Flying high in the Mesozoic: Flight dynamics of pterosaurs from exceptional fossils - David Martill, University of Portsmouth
- What's left of where we came from? The fossil record of early chordate evolution - Mark Purnell, University of Leicester
- The Herefordshire Lagerstätte: A 3D glimpse of Silurian life. - Mark Sutton, Imperial College London
Source
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 12:17 pm
That's what I thought, farmerdude, thanks.

Walter, looks like a fascinating conference/ festival.
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Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 01:02 pm
Wow!......if T.rex WAS covered in feathers and was basically a big bird, imagine what size his roosting tree would have been!
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 02:15 pm
I've been imagining the classic Jurassic Park-type T. Rex as a plucked chicken lately.

Think how much bigger those mofos must've looked with all that plumage...
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 09:28 am
Is that what Big Bird descended from?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 09:46 am
nimh wrote:
Is that what Big Bird descended from?


Timber certainly is an A2K dinosaur! :wink:
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 10:20 am
I meant the Sesame Street one, but now you have me thinking...
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 10:25 am
Lovely bird the Norwegian Blue, Lovely plumage...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2005 10:28 am
nimh wrote:
but now you have me thinking...


On an evening, on A2K, by one of my responses Shocked
0 Replies
 
 

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