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The Podium of Solutions for the City of New Orleans

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 06:54 pm
OK. I'll reword.

It's incredibly shitty, bordering on narcissistic to post the same crap in different threads.
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 08:19 pm
Frank--

I don't watch television so I was very glad to read your account of the interview with the 10 year old.

The problem with multiple posting--even of most worthy material--is that like many A2K posters I follow multiple threads and sometimes--as in the aftermath of Katrina--I have trouble keeping the threads separate.

Repeating posts makes it even harder.

Be kind the to the senile--I'll accept what you say once as true.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 11:09 pm
Lash wrote:
OK. I'll reword.

It's incredibly shitty, bordering on narcissistic to post the same crap in different threads.


This seems overly critical to me.
Some things are worth sharing, and it's an individual's choice how they do that. I think a lot of relevant threads pass me by, and I'm quite grateful sometimes to get cross-links.

What about my earlier question, about the housing (as winter approaches) on a semi-permanent basis of hundreds of thousands of refugees? Has anyone got any information (or links) about that?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 11:39 pm
When is the last time any country in the developed world has had to suddenly manage the evacuation of a city of several million people in the face of an imminent natural disaster, and then find the original disaster compounded by a second related one? I pose this question only to remind us here that such things do not occur often and there are very few data points which can provide us reference points.

It has been well known for decades that New Orleans was living on borrowed time from a geological and natural perspective. The largest river in the continent flows through it into a delta whose shape and size change on a continuing basis. It is bordered by a very large, shallow lake which is the main drainage point for a much larger region region surrounding the city. The water levels in both the river and the lake are quite variable seasonally and, in the case of the lake, on an almost hourly basis during periods of heavy rainfall. Most of the city ( except for the very small region around the old French quarter), is well below the lake level, and continuous pumping is required to empty the city storm sewers into a lake at a higher elevation than the city average. The levees protecting the city from these bodies of water were not designed to protect it from category 4 or greater storms. More importantly the levees did not provide the margin required to proitect the city from a storm that dumped such large quantities of rainfall on the city and the surrounding region. Finally, the pumping stations that sustained the city evidently did not have backup power systems constructed on platforms higher than the worst case flood, and when floods occurred, coupled with transmission line failures due to the storm, the city was without the ability to prevent it from becoming the lake bottom which it naturally is.

Louisiana is a state with an interesting and unique political history. It has entertained the nation with a series of colorful and criminal governors who have set progessively worse standards of demagogery, graft and misuse of political power. The currrent Governor and the Mayor of New Orleans have already given us rather apt demonstrations of their own incompetence in dealing with these issues and ready fingers to point blame at others.

I believe these factors, together with a particularly bad storm, were the roots of the present problems. Despite this, after an uncoordinated start by local government, the problems are being addressed,
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 12:04 am
I think that is a good resume of the situation, George.

I am interested in how society will deal with this...America is a "self-help" culture, it seems to me, and would not naturally react as, say, Holland or Switzerland might.
Also, there are seemingly conflicting authorities who did not at first work well together. But now a large social programme is necessary. What a huge and unprecedented task.
I am sure by now, a chain of command is established and coordinated work is being planned, on all possible fronts:

Relief work, housing work, medical work, social work, waste disposal, urban clearance, civil engineering construction on levees, causeways, ports, pumps, sewers
Urban planning, future flood protection, insurance losses and compensation, demolition, renewal...

Unprecedented, and unimaginable. It will take decades. However the will seems to be there to do it- to restore and improve the city, I mean.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 02:23 am
Lash wrote:
OK. I'll reword.

It's incredibly shitty, bordering on narcissistic to post the same crap in different threads.


Perhaps it has less to do with narcissism on the part of a person who thinks a comment is important enough to share in similar threads...

..than it has to do with the fact that the comment points out that a 10 year old is more articulate than than the present president of the United States....a president you seem to think is hot stuff.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 02:38 am
The NYT says there's 220,000 people displaced in Texas, with numbers rising.

19 states are receiving refugees. Jeez.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 03:03 am
Here is a link to NBC News. If you play the two pieces that have to do with the youngster in New Orleans pleading for help...you will see what I was talking about. The second of the two pieces was from the NBC Dateline...and the first is a follow up piece the news division did.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 04:02 am
In re: what are you doing to help?

THEY TAKE PAYPAL, DISCOVER, VISA, M/C, CHECKS
The following is a list of reputable
organizations. Pick one, give.
http://www.redcross.org
http://www.secondharvest.org
http://www.salvationarmyusa.org
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 04:04 am
POLICE/EMERGENCY RADIO FEEDS from NEW ORLEANS

Mostly army chatter in military lingo now, but
they're moving in and taking over. (Be ready to wait out long pauses between squawks.)

NEW ORLEANS http://ve3nsv.no-ip.org:8000/louisiana.m3u



MOBILE (intermittent) http://www.al.com/mobilepolice/popup1/index.frame
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 09:24 am
McTag wrote:
What is now going to happen to the poor people who can't go home to New Orleans- probably for months, or longer?

How many people are being bussed out to Texas- 100,00? 200,000? More?

These people are going to need several very large temporary towns to be built.

Will that happen?


My paper today (The Observer) said one million people are displaced, and will need to be found temporary accommodation.
Many are in sports halls, churches, schools, hotels across 19 states.
They will need to be moved into something different, soon.

One million.

That is some task. I should imagine it will need international help. From the United Nations maybe?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 09:29 am
McTag
McTag, winter is coming.

BBB
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 10:25 am
BBB
In a CNN interview yesterday, the former Mayor of New Orleans said there was no plan to evacuate the City's poor people except for them to find their way to the Superdome. He said there was no busing plans for the thousands of people without cars or other transporation.

This neglect is unacceptable at the local government level, the one's who are most responsible for planning for disasters!

BBB
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 11:07 am
BBB
In a CNN interview a few minutes ago, both the head of FEMA and the head of National Security admitted that they didn't know about the plus 10,000 people stranded in the convention center without food or water until Friday night.

Unbelievable! Unexceptable!

BBB
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 01:22 pm
McTag wrote:
I am interested in how society will deal with this...America is a "self-help" culture, it seems to me, and would not naturally react as, say, Holland or Switzerland might.
Also, there are seemingly conflicting authorities who did not at first work well together. But now a large social programme is necessary. What a huge and unprecedented task.
I am sure by now, a chain of command is established and coordinated work is being planned, on all possible fronts:

Relief work, housing work, medical work, social work, waste disposal, urban clearance, civil engineering construction on levees, causeways, ports, pumps, sewers
Urban planning, future flood protection, insurance losses and compensation, demolition, renewal...

Unprecedented, and unimaginable. It will take decades. However the will seems to be there to do it- to restore and improve the city, I mean.


I think you are correct in noting the difference in the structural responses here and in (say) Holland or Switzerland. Interesting tradeoffs, both good and bad. Our constitution places primary power and authority in local government, confining Federal power to fairly well-defined limits. Moreover our culture resists the kind of authoritarian structures that have enabled the Swiss & Dutch to accomplish so many often impressive things. I believe this is a necessary component of our adaptability and ability to assimilate so many people of such varying origins. (I don't suggest that no improvements could be made, but rather that this central tendency has some necessary and beneficial features.)

The inadequacy of the stormwater systems in and around New Orleans has been well-known in engineering circles here for many decades. One can only wonder at the municipal government that permitted such widespread home construction on a dangerous floodplain, with such inadequate protections.

Overall, I believe the responses of even the local governments to the hurricane were adequate, It was the second, related disaster of the failure of the levees that occurred about 40 hours after the storm passed that created a new situation well beyond their ability to manage.

The reconstruction effort will indeed take a long time, but the region has recovered well from such things before. Gulfport Mississippi was hit harder by this hurricane than was New Orleans, and It was nearly destroyed by Hurricane Camille (I think) about 25 years ago. I do believe that the lowest lying regions of New Orleans should not be rebuilt, and instead a very serious program of stormwater management should be put in place together with appropriate restrictions on land use. Doing this well will require that the politics of Louisiana demonstrate degrees of maturity, ethics, and competence which they have not often achieved.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 01:51 pm
I've been in France for some days and thus got the chance not only to listen to different radio programs (from France, the UK, Blegium) but speak to people from various countries (here: British, Swedish, Dutch, Belgian ... besides the French, of course).

I heard in Belgium radio today that they'll send some dozen red personla for logistic help ... supported by the Luxembourg Red Cross. I've still the surprised voice of the official from Luxembourg in my ears, when he talked about how astonished they were to be asked to help the USA ... instead of Burundi.

I think, McTag asked some intersting questions and George gave some excellent answers.
(Opposite those ordinary Joes I talked with: they were [mostly] just filled with consternation that such could happen in and to the USA.

On BBC Radio 2 as well as on various French radio programs, there were prayers this morning in the religious programms for the victims .... repeating the various accounts where people can donate money.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 01:57 pm
I asked some excellent questions, actually. :wink:

Heard today, the UK will send 500,000 instant meals.
Hope you don't mind crumpets and haggis.
Hamburgers and grits may take longer.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 01:58 pm
True. My answers were merely interesting.

I'm confident the floks in New Orleans will appraciate a bit of British cuisine - they will be a refreshing change from our prepackaged MREs.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 02:06 pm
McTag wrote:

Heard today, the UK will send 500,000 instant meals.
Hope you don't mind crumpets and haggis.
Hamburgers and grits may take longer.


The German forces have already sent two planes (about 25 tons) of day-rations (two more planes are being loaded tonight).

I'm sure, the content has changed since 1970 - otherwise .... :wink:
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 02:14 pm
BBB
I don't know if this has been suggested before on this long thread.

Why don't we move the displaced people who don't have relatives to move in with to the many military bases that have been closed but are still in liveable condition with some sprucing up.

I know volunteers could quickly clean and paint military housing for people to live in. The infra structure is still there or could easily be activated.

Anyone know how many bases in the South East could offer such housing?

BBB
0 Replies
 
 

 
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