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I have some (crucial) questions for all (third party) candidates running for president.

 
 
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2023 01:48 pm
The following are open letter questions to (Joe Manchin), (Robert F Kennedy), (Cornel West),
and any other third party candidate running president
:



1. Do you believe that your third party candidacy, in anyway, will help Donald Trump win back the White House in 2024?

2. What do you think (Donald Trump) would do as President if he were to ever win back the White House?


Let's be very clear. Third party candidates have absolutely no chance of winning the presidency in 2024.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 1,779 • Replies: 33

 
Real Music
 
  4  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2023 02:17 pm
Full Disclosure:

1. I am a registered democrat.
2. I will vote straight democrat on my ballot.
3. I believe Joe Biden has done a wonderful job as President.
4. I fully support Joe Biden.
5. I believe that Donald Trump is an autocrat and a dictator.
6. I believe that Donald Trump and the rest of the MAGA Republicans are against the Constitution.
7. I believe that Donald Trump and the rest of the MAGA Republicans are against the Rule of Law.
8. I believe that Donald Trump and the rest of the MAGA Republicans are against America's National Security
and National Defense
.
9. I believe that Donald Trump and the rest of the MAGA Republicans are against Democracy in America.
Real Music
 
  4  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2023 10:04 pm
‘A perilous time to be playing with fire’: The consequences of a third party candidate.

The Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson and Washington Post columnist Jennifer Rubin join Ali Velshi to discuss the dangers of third-party candidates in 2024 as Sen. Joe Manchin’s retirement fuels speculation about a potential run, and other candidates, such as Jill Stein and RFK Jr. continue to mount bids for the presidency. “Anyone who pulls a single vote away from Joe Biden… they’re not just voting for Trump, they are voting to end this country as we know it,” Wilson says. Regarding the threat of No Labels, Rubin adds, “This is just a suicide for democracy, a kamikaze plunge into the abyss, and the people who encourage them are cynical and manipulative.”


Published Nov 12, 2023

0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2023 02:20 am
Roland TORCHES Bill Maher for his whining about Biden's age.

Published Oct 31, 2023

0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2023 03:35 pm
@Real Music,
Quote:
Full Disclosure


Hear! Hear!
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  3  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2023 04:29 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

The following are open letter questions to (Joe Manchin), (Robert F Kennedy), (Cornel West),
and any other third party candidate running president
:



1. Do you believe that your third party candidacy, in anyway, will help Donald Trump win back the White House in 2024?

I literally believe that's why Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is running for office. Him and any candidate that gets the utter bull **** No Labels Party support.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2023 10:47 pm
My only question to any would be candidate in these times of RW threat while we finally start pulling out of Orange Hitler's blunders and destruction: "Are you Joe Biden?"
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2023 11:48 am
Why on Earth Would (Joe Manchin) Run for President?


By Ed Kilgore, political columnist for Intelligencer since 2015
(Published May 12, 2023)


Quote:
In the course of just a week, West Virginia senator Joe Manchin has managed to make news twice in connection with a possible 2024 independent bid for the presidency. First, Puck published some leaked communications from the bowels of the No Labels organization, which is seeking 50-state ballot access for a hypothetical bipartisan presidential ticket in 2024 aimed at offering a centrist alternative to the allegedly broken and extremist major parties. Among the material was a No Labels phone conversation in which Manchin (a longtime intimate of the group) sounded very much like a potential candidate for the White House.

Then Manchin turned up in Iowa, where presidential politics are as popular as corndogs. Axios interpreted the trip as a definite sign the West Virginian is having White House dreams:

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) may not have announced that he’s running as a third-party candidate for president. But he’s acting like it.

Driving the news: Manchin took time from his busy Senate schedule to tell a gathering of Iowa business and community leaders Wednesday in D.C. that he’s “fiscally responsible and socially compassionate” — another hint that he’s considering a potential third-party presidential bid.

Back in the Senate, he released a statement vowing to oppose all President Biden’s EPA nominees over the administration’s “radical climate agenda.”



It’s unclear to me why Iowa, which is now your basic red state, would be a rich venue for a proto-independent presidential candidate, other than the state’s hyper-political atmosphere. But let’s say Manchin is considering a run on a No Labels ticket (the only one available in 2024, as a practical matter). What would he be trying to accomplish? Let’s look at some possible motivations for a Manchin 2024 campaign, based on past independent/third-party presidential bids.

It’s a serious bid to win the presidency.

Supposedly No Labels won’t run a ticket unless there’s a good chance of victory. But in the past, independent candidates (notably John Anderson in 1980 and Ross Perot in 1992) had a moment of strength in the polls that convinced them erroneously that they had a chance to win. Both were running second for a hot minute but faded in the home stretch. So would any independent candidate in an election where Trump and Biden will fiercely hold onto Republican and Democratic partisans with the stakes getting higher every day.

There’s zero precedent for a successful centrist third-party (or independent) candidacy winning anything other than random down-ballot contests (the biggest probably being Minnesota’s governorship in 1998). And I can’t imagine a scenario where Manchin could win 270 electoral votes. He almost certainly would lose to the Republican nominee in his home state. So, nope, this isn’t a legitimate reason for a Manchin presidential race.

It’s a ploy to deadlock the Electoral College and then cut deals.

There are some precedents for candidates with regional strength to try to win enough states to prevent the major-party presidential from winning a majority, thus throwing the election into the U.S. House of Representatives where every state has one vote. The last viable effort like that was in 1968, when segregationist George Wallace hoped a close Humphrey-Nixon contest would wind up in the House where the South could extort a curtailment of civil-rights laws or enforcement. Wallace did win five states and 46 electoral votes, but Richard Nixon won 301 and put the election away.

Manchin has no discernible regional base and no state where he’s likely to pull off a rare victory (like Anderson and Perot, the best he might conceivably do is second place in a few states). So he would have no leverage unless it was based on a withdrawal and then an endorsement. That’s a lot of trouble to go through for a limited degree of influence, and the major-party candidates probably wouldn’t infuriate their supporters by going along in any case. So nah, that’s probably not what Joe Manchin has in mind.

It’s an effort to remake the Democratic Party.

Manchin is a lifelong Democrat, albeit one whose legislative raison d’être since he’s been in the Senate has been to gain influence by threatening a defection. He’s forever complaining about progressive factional influence over the Democratic Party. Might he try to run for president as an independent in order to arrest or reverse what he perceives as a malevolent leftward trend in his party? Arguably Teddy Roosevelt’s Progressive candidacy in 1912 and Henry Wallace’s identically named effort in 1948 were intra-party revolts. But both men were also trying to build viable new parties with a coherent ideology, and Joe Manchin doesn’t have a coherent ideological bone in his body unless you consider him an ardent Fossil Fueler.

Besides, the only way Manchin as an independent candidate could influence the future of the Democratic Party would be to defeat it in 2024, which would not make him a welcome presence in party councils. If he really wants to influence Democrats, it would make more sense for him to run against Biden in the Democratic primaries. He wouldn’t win, but he’d probably do better than RFK Jr. or Marianne Williamson. In the end, it’s very hard to shape the future of a political party by leaving it, so that, too, is probably not what Machin has in mind.

It’s an effort to build an entirely new party.

Again, it’s hard to imagine what a Manchin-led party would stand for other than cutting deals with rival parties. But for 2024, that’s off the table anyway, since No Labels is vigorously refusing to build a party infrastructure, treating its putative effort as a one-off emergency bid to change both the major parties simultaneously.

It’s something better to do than being crushed in Senate race.

Best I can tell, this may be Joe Manchin’s true rationale for considering an independent presidential run. His current trajectory for 2024 is a crushing defeat for reelection — probably a humiliating loss to his old rival Jim Justice — in West Virginia, where he has become very unpopular and will be bucking a very likely Republican presidential landslide. Flirting with a presidential run is a more ego-flattering course of action. And if he achieves a credible threat of running and damaging Joe Biden, who knows, his fellow Democrats could reward him with an appointment to something after 2024 if he instead demurs.

And if all else fails, a proto-presidential candidacy wouldn’t be a bad advertisement for Joe Manchin’s availability for a cushy lobbying job or some other nice retirement sinecure. It all beats the hell out of getting defeated in a Senate race.


https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05/why-joe-manchin-run-for-president-2024.html
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2023 12:50 pm
@Real Music,
I imagine he has a collection of big game taxidermy, too.

He's looking for something to do where he can protect his robber baron fortune.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2023 11:40 pm
Published Nov 21, 2023


0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Sun 31 Dec, 2023 12:46 am
Column: The false centrism of political group No Labels


Published July 20, 2023


Quote:
Presidential campaigns start earlier and earlier these days, and so too do pleas that politics in the U.S. would be so much more effective if we could, in the words of Rodney King, “all just get along.”

So here comes the purportedly centrist political group No Labels, which recently released a 72-page political manifesto titled “Common Sense,” in an overt echo of Thomas Paine.

“Most Americans are decent, caring, reasonable, and patriotic people,” declares the document’s preamble. “Instead, we see our two major parties dominated by angry and extremist voices driven by ideology and identity politics rather than what’s best for our country.”

No Labels says it may back a third-party candidate for president next year unless President Biden seems to be running well ahead of Donald Trump. That sounds more like a threat than a promise.

The politician the group has been most assiduously promoting lately is Sen. Joe Manchin III (D-W.Va.). Manchin has demonstrated his centrist bona fides by doing things such as killing an expansion of the Child Tax Credit, an anti-poverty program of proven effectiveness, and blocking initiatives for renewable fuels in favor of protecting coal and other fossil fuels (he’s an investor in the coal industry).

That might tell you all you need to know about No Labels, but there’s more. The organization doesn’t disclose its donors, but Mother Jones has reported that they include private equity investors, a natural gas billionaire, and real estate and insurance industry figures.

The best window into No Labels approach is its “Common Sense” policy document, which boasts of providing “a clear blueprint for where America’s commonsense majority wants this country to go.”

Would that were so. In the flesh, the document is an agglomeration of misinformation, platitudes and premasticated nostrums.

The document tends to make its points by listing problems and saying, in effect, “something must be done” — but doesn’t give many specifics about what that something would be. It makes assumptions about what is desired by “commonsense Americans” (whoever they are) without actually showing that its assumptions are valid.

Housing? “Building more homes in America will make housing more affordable for Americans,” says No Labels. No kidding? So what are you going to do about it? The policy document doesn’t say, beyond endorsing a couple of federal tax credit proposals in Congress that on the gonna-happen scale are a “not.”

On some issues, No Labels merely tries to split the difference between two sides, never mind that one side may be right and the other wrong. Abortion? No Labels calls for a “compromise” between the belief that “women have a right to control their own reproductive health and our society’s responsibility to protect human life.”

That word salad gets us nowhere, skating glibly over the Supreme Court’s overturning of Roe vs. Wade, as played out in states where stringent antiabortion statutes have had devastating consequences for the health of pregnant women and their access to medical care. If that’s the best that No Labels can offer, why does the organization exist at all?

Social Security? No Labels calls its fiscal condition “a textbook example of how leaders kick the can down the road in a manner that makes a foreseeable problem even harder to solve for the next generation.” This is a textbook example of balderdash.

“The longer Washington waits to fix Social Security,” No Labels says, “the harder it will be to do so.” The truth, as the political geniuses behind No Labels surely understand, is just the opposite. The closer a deadline, the easier it is to bring people together for a solution.

No Labels bases its argument on the fact that if Congress defers a decision on shoring up the program’s finances, the solutions will require more stringent benefit cuts or tax increases than they would today. But acting now would mean reducing benefits or raising taxes long before that’s necessary, and possibly more than will be necessary.

And who would pay that price? No Labels says that “no one in retirement — or close to it — should face any benefit changes.” Why not? Why place the burden of benefit cuts only on the younger generation? If “fixing” Social Security is “a challenge that we can and must solve together,” how come those in their fifties or older get a free pass?

The real reason that Social Security may need more funding is that wealthier Americans aren’t paying their fair share of the payroll tax that funds most benefits. Removing the cap on the payroll tax, which exempts wage income over $160,200 (this year’s limit), would eliminate almost all the program’s funding deficit for the foreseeable future. But that, obviously, would hit the taxpayer class No Labels seems determined to protect.

We can see that in the organization’s hand-wringing over the federal debt: “Our overall debt-to-GDP ratio is 120% and it is getting worse by the day.”

A few points about this. First, as frightening as this formula makes the debt sound, whether it’s meaningful is highly questionable. GDP is a snapshot of the current economy, debt is paid down over time — 10 or even 30 years. Some of this debt may never actually come due, since the U.S. has the capability of rolling over its debts in perpetuity.

In any case, the figure of 120% is misleading, because it doesn’t net out federal debt held in federal accounts — in effect, debt the government owes to itself. Debt held by the public (including foreign investors) currently comes to about 100% of GDP and is projected to reach about 107% in 2028. The last time the ratio was this high was in the late 1940s, reflecting the cost of waging World War II.

That was a crisis, and the current level of debt also reflects a crisis — the COVID-19 pandemic, in which the government protected millions of Americans from financial disaster through trillions of dollars in assistance. Was that a bad choice? No Labels seems to say so, but it’s doubtful that many households would agree.

A more appropriate ratio is interest-to-GDP. The government’s interest bill comes to about 1.7% of GDP this year, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The CBO projects that the annual average will work out to about 2.6% over the next decade.

Is that a crushing burden? As economist Dean Baker has pointed out, it has been higher in the past. It was about 3% during the 1990s. That was a “very prosperous decade,” during which the debt burden was not seen as much of a problem.

As a result of the Federal Reserve Board’s run-up in interest rates over the last year, government securities are paying higher rates. Whether this is bad news depends on where you sit. It could be a boon for seniors dependent on fixed-income investments, for instance. They’ve been struggling with minimal returns for years as interest rates touched zero percent. Today, however, one-year T-bills yield about 5.3% and 10-year notes more than 3.7%, annualized.

No Labels calls for a deficit reduction commission to issue proposals for spending cuts and revenue increases that Congress would have to vote on as a unified package. The model here is the Simpson-Bowles Fiscal Responsibility Commission of 2010. No Labels recalls its report as “sensible and responsible, and dead on arrival.”

That’s a neat bit of historical revisionism. The reason the report went nowhere was that the commission itself was so split that it never got around to issuing recommendations at all. The co-chairs, the noxious former Sen. Alan Simpson (R-Wyo.) and the conservative Democrat Erskine Bowles, traveled the country trying to sell their snake oil, with no success.

The truth was that the commission was a front for the wealthy. The Simpson-Bowles plan was a road map for cutting services and benefits for the working and middle class — including Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits and disaster relief — while preserving the tax breaks that the rich valued most highly. By taking Simpson-Bowles as a model, No Labels shows us what it’s really about.

Some of the policy document’s “ideas” are based on popular mythologies and received wisdom (or really, received misinformation). Some are self-contradictory. On crime, for example, the document says, “Americans are worried about the surge of crime,” but two paragraphs later acknowledges that violent crime is “down 44% since the 1990s.”

What’s the solution? To No Labels, it all boils down to putting more cops on the street. “It’s a simple equation: the more cops patrolling a given community, the less crime that community experiences.” There’s no hint there that among law enforcement experts this is a heavily disputed claim.

It’s based on dubious data and a very narrow definition of “crime” — leaving out offenses such as wage theft and air and water pollution, for instance — and overlooks numerous proven approaches to reducing street crime that don’t require more cops. Nor does it recognize that in some contexts, more police leads to more crime. But why claim to be exploring the complexity of criminal justice, when you’re just parroting the simple-minded conclusion that more cops invariably make a community safer?

On these and many other issues, No Labels is claiming to map out a middle ground between Democrats and Republicans that doesn’t really exist. No Labels says its goal is to combat political polarization in America, but the country is not, in fact, polarized. Large majorities favor abortion rights, gun control, making the rich pay their fair share in taxes, and protecting voting rights.

No Labels tries to both-sides the GOP’s allegiance to an extremist former president and its platform of eliminating abortion rights, constricting voting rights and advancing discrimination against racial and ethnic minorities and LGBTQ+ individuals. That Democratic Party policies are the polar opposites of those hardly makes it as “extremist” as the GOP. Where’s the middle ground when one side wants to expand rights and opportunities, and the other wants to destroy them?


https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-07-20/the-false-centrism-of-no-labels
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  4  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2024 09:08 am
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2024 03:20 pm
My message to any voter who is considering voting for a third party candidate:
If you don't want Trump back in the White House, cast your vote for Biden-Harris.



My message to any voter who is considering staying home and not voting:
If you don't want Trump back in the White House, cast a vote for Biden-Harris.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2024 08:28 am
Is RFK JR the first presidential candidate to have his brain eaten by a worm?
NYT: RFK Jr. says worm 'got into my brain and ate a ... - CNN


And let's not forget he likely had mercury poisoning causing neurological damage.
Region Philbis
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2024 09:55 am
@tsarstepan,

https://i.postimg.cc/fT5DmtbD/capture.jpg
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2024 07:29 am
@Region Philbis,
This is BATSHIT INSANE!
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Says He Dumped a Dead Bear in Central Park in Video With Roseanne Barr

Quote:
Kennedy began an his story sharing that at the time he was “taking a group of people falconing up in Goshen, New York, up in the Hudson Valley” and while he was driving, a woman in a van in front of him “hit a bear and killed it. A young bear.”

“So I pulled over and I picked up the bear and put him in the back of my van, because I was going to skin the bear,” he said. “And it was very good condition, and I was going to put the meat in my refrigerator. And you can do that in New York state — you can get a bear tag for a roadkill bear.”

He continued, “And so then we went hawking and I had the bear in my car. And then we had a really good day, and we went late. We were catching a lot of game, and the people really loved it, so we stayed late. And instead of going back to my home in Westchester, I had to go right to the city, because there was a dinner at Peter Luger’s Steak House. And at the end of the dinner, it went late, and I realized I couldn’t go home — I had to go to the airport. And the bear was in my car, and I didn’t want to leave the bear in the car, because, well, that would have been bad.”

“So then I thought, you know, at that time — this was the little bit of the redneck in me — there’d been a series of bicycle accidents in New York, they had just put in the bike lanes,” Kennedy said. “And some people, a couple of people had gotten killed, and it was every day, and people had been badly injured. Every day, it was in the press. And so I thought — I wasn’t drinking, of course, but people were drinking with me who thought this was a good idea.”

He continued, “I had an old bike in my car that somebody had asked me to get rid of, and I said, ‘Let’s go put the bear in the Central Park, and we’ll make it look like he got hit by a bike’ — it would be fun, funny for people. So everybody thought, ‘That’s a great idea,’ so we went and did that. And we thought it would be amusing for whoever found it or something.”
jespah
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2024 11:36 am
@tsarstepan,
Amusing?

Tell me you did a bunch of drugs without telling me you did a bunch of drugs.

That worm in his brain has some wacky ass ideas.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2024 03:59 pm
Eugene Debs: I'd rather vote for what I want and not get it than vote for what I don't want and get it.

The genocides in the Middle East and Africa alone preclude my voting for all but a couple of candidates. Reagan made me quit voting for Republicans for all time. It took the Clintons and Obama to say the same about Democrats. I don't like Stein, so that leaves Cornel West for me. Republicans openly say they will take it all away. Democrats promise to work for us but only until the time comes to do it. Then they have excuses for being utterly helpless. We went from a New Deal to No Deal in less than my lifetime. Last election I was the only Texan probably to vote for the Indigenous Mark Charles. I am proud of that vote.
tsarstepan
 
  4  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2024 04:07 pm
@edgarblythe,
There's one day when Democrats could make Texas Blue. Throwing your vote away like this, Edgar? You'll never get anything other than Gov. Abbotts for the next few decades. You'll keep getting Sen. Ted Cruzs as well.

A vote for Cornell West ain't going to help any of that change.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2024 11:42 pm
@tsarstepan,
Even when liberal Democrats ran the country Texas voted in conservatives. The conservatives ran as Democrats and performed as conservatives while giving liberalism a dishonest thumbs up. I don't throw my vote away. I vote for what I want. The ones that throw their votes away vote party line without thinking or stay at home on election day.
 

 
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