Serious question about age...and gender.

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There are two commercials on TV that I see often. In one...a woman says, "Age is just a number"...and then with a big smile, adds, "...and mine is unlisted."

In the other, a woman gives her age as, "Seventy..." (pause) "...something."

Women seem to want to hide their age. You actually hear people say, "It is not polite to ask a woman her age."

I do not see that with men...quite the opposite, in fact. Older guys often brag about their age. You hear older guys often mention to slightly younger men..."Well, you are just a baby"...and then give their age.

I'm 87...and proud of it. I would expect an 87 year old woman to feel that same way. But that apparently is not the case.

Not being nasty about this...just asking, what is it with that?

Do women take a beating for living long? Is there something I am not considering that I should easily see?

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@Frank Apisa,

Men aren't bombarded with ads to look younger. Products like Retinal, Botox, and Anti-wrinkle foundation are the norm. Clothes are supposed to be trendy, shoes are high heeled and slung back, where comfort doesn't matter.

Yes, age is a detriment for a woman.

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One of my all-time favorite tv quotes says it better than I ever could:

"If women liked the way they look, the entire American economy would collapse." Corporate

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Google the term male gaze.

We women are pretty constantly bombarded with the message that we have a short shelf life. That our value is below the waist only. And that any deviation from social norms related to attractiveness (think stuff like not shaving armpits or having tattoos or dressing overly conservatively—or overly liberally, for that matter) is cause for shunning, ignoring, and belittling.

It can manifest itself in all sorts of ways, including not getting a job or a mortgage or the like. Yeah, it's discrimination. But people shrug it off as being, well, that's gross. Why doesn't she shave? Etc.

How often do you see significant age gap relationships? I mean over 5 years' difference and more like 20. Who, inevitably, is the older and more powerful person? If you said the one with the penis, then you would be right.

In your age bracket, and in my Dad's (he's ~ 5 years older than you), there are about 38 men for every 100 women, according to the US Census. But you would think that this ratio held true in our 50s and 60s with the large number of men who specifically in their online dating profiles don't want a woman over the age of around 30.

Don't believe me? Then check out research which asked men in 45 countries what age woman they preferred. Big shocker there—a majority preferred younger women (although in all fairness a lot of these men preferred women within 5 years of their own age).

Look at media, too. Check out Hollywood's perception of a healthy age gap and you'll often see a huge gap in real life. And this can often be the case in stories where that gap isn't a plot point at all. Consider the film Six Days, Seven Nights, which pairs up Anne Heche and Harrison Ford. Heche was born in 1969. Ford? He was born in 1942.

That's almost as much of gap as in his real-life marriage. His wife, Calista Flockhart, was born in 1964.

This is just one example and you can find tons of them online.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Women seem to want to hide their age. You actually hear people say, "It is not polite to ask a woman her age."

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I believe it's a social construct, as in that commercial about a woman dying her hair -"Does she or doesn't she?" It's an age and generational thing. My mother said she was 29 every birthday - now she's 86 and proud of it and would tell anyone.

A 35 yr old woman would likely not care in this day and age, depending on how and why you asked, but yeah, like the others said, after a certain age, we're considered past our prime - at work and in the dating scene.

That said, older people seem to care less. A woman I volunteered with told me every visit she was 93 or 94 - she considered herself a sentient survivor. My neighbour cheerfully offered that she just had her 79th birthday.

But does anyone ask a man his age? I've never heard that question being put to a man.

Funny, but when my ex was 60, he was dating a woman who was 63 and he was very worried about what people thought. Then, when he was 63, he married a woman who was 29 and thought nothing of it! lol

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In our society, men are rated by their accomplishments, women by their "looks".
As a result, many women go to ridiculous heights to make themselves look younger. In film, once a woman hits middle age, she is out of the running for major parts. Gratefully, this is changing somewhat.

Women are now in professions which were once exclusively male, so that keeping that "20 something" look is not quite as important. Problem is that many female celebrities go through so many medical procedures to look younger, that often they are unrecognizable.

Men, on the other hand, often do not run to the doctor to make themselves more youthful. A beard and mustache cover a multitude of age lines.

Frank- BTW, I am 84, and have a line in my face for every year. Funny though,I will not go outside without my makeup (much more lightly applied than in the past.) I am elderly, and grateful for every year lived.

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@Phoenix32890,

Speaking of makeup, all my life I would never go out without mascara and blush but funny thing - I got freed up during the pandemic. Now, I almost never wear makeup. And I wear the same things over and over. Love it!

I also let my hair go gray, which took over a year, and had it cut to my shoulders. So much better and easier!

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Thanks for your comments, everyone.

I have wanted to reply, but it is not easy, because I am still not getting responses that go to what I actually want to know.

I agree IN HUGE MEASURE with everything everyone has said about the differences in the way men and women are treated as they age. In my opinion, the kinds of discrimination I see towards women is worse than that I see delivered due to racial, ethnic, or religious differences. It sucks...and every woman should be furious that such disparity exists.

But that is not at the thrust of what I am asking.

Lemme think my question through a bit more...and see if I can clarify what I am asking. I have been thinking about this since the first response was posted...and I am not having lots of luck refining my question yet.

As we say here in New Jersey...I'll get back to youse.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I'll get back to youse.

Bearing your comment in mind, I'd still like to weigh in here.

I think that the sort of behavior that you're referring to is a relic of the social expectation of a bygone era, back when passing for a "lady" actually meant something. (Victorian novels are steeped in the awareness of this dynamic and its consequences.) Not asking a woman her age, and a woman demurely avoiding to reveal it, was a script written a long time ago, in an age which has passed.

That doesn't mean that there aren't men and woman who still practice that particular social game, but it's about as deep as saying "God bless you" when some stranger sneezes in a subway car. And I've noticed that women who face economic hardship, discrimination, and chronic uncertainty won't hesitate to tell you how old they are. But if a lady's age is confessed or revealed, a certain number of people in her social circle will form various judgments and opinions about her and feel compelled to express them. It feeds office gossip and the neighborhood rumor mill.

Quote:

I agree IN HUGE MEASURE with everything everyone has said about the differences in the way men and women are treated as they age.

And I agree as well. It's all too true. But I think there's a "classist" aspect as well as a "sexist" one. Ladies and gentlemen are given a certain leeway when it comes to revealing personal matters. It's all part of keeping up appearances.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Do women take a beating for living long? Is there something I am not considering that I should easily see?

Yes, they did, and still often do.I think all has to do with sex. In our culture women were (and are) simply objects for male sexual gratification. I would expect that this is hard wired into a man's psyche, the object being procreation.

Most old ladies are not sexy. For the average guy, an elderly woman does not get a man's hormones racing.

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So, in a nutshell, it’s about the balance of power. Older men may still be likely as seen as powerful but not the case for older women?

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@Ragman,

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Older men may still be likely as seen as powerful but not the case for older women?

Unless they hold office, run a company, or flaunt their wealth, older men are just as likely to be seen as pathetic. I don't think it has any bearing on the reticence of women to divulge their age.

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@hightor,

Quote:

Unless they hold office, run a company, or flaunt their wealth, older men are just as likely to be seen as pathetic. I don't think it has any bearing on the reticence of women to divulge their age.

I think that what you are referring to is longevity. People are living much longer now. In many cultures, grandma was the person who helped with grandchildren.
I don't know if this phenomenon has been studied, but I have seen this concept many times over the years. Women live longer because by evolution, they were needed to help mothers nurture the next generation.

Now we are all living longer, but women still outlive men. I don't believe that all elderly men are pathetic. I think if a man has had a good life, has in some way contributed to society and acquired a lot of wisdom, he deserves the same respect as the former Chairman of the Board. There are men (and women) who have been pathetic their entire lives, and it does not get better when they are elderly.

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After giving his a whole bunch of thought, I just cannot think of a way to ask the question without sounding lacking in understanding...and I am not lacking that.

Weird, but the thought that came to mind after much consideration was that I have the same feelings regarding hearing aids. (Yeah, I know, I know. Very, very long stretch here!)

Hearing aids obviously are a need for MANY people in our country. The are regularly advertised in newspapers, magazines, on radio and TV...and who knows what else.

But in EVERY ad...at some point the seller will make a statement about "our hearing aids are almost invisible" or "nobody will even realize you are wearing them."

WTF?

I am hard of hearing. Without hearing aids, I am left out of conversations. Before I got the hearing aids, when someone was saying something I could not understand, I had learned to nod my head, smile, and hope I was not being informed that someone's mother had been run over by a truck.

Now...I can hear...even in crowded company. I no longer have to fake it.

But why would anyone think less of me because I need hearing aids? If I had a broken arm, would I need to look for casts that are almost invisible?

Anyway...I cannot imagine anyone thinking less of someone because of knowledge of their age. If any women are getting that kind of thing visited upon them...you ought really to tell them to shove it.

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@Frank Apisa,

Interesting comparison here. Many people believe that hearing aids are a sign that a person is getting older. If a young person needs hearing aids, people often assume that he is disabled, which is entirely different.

So if we look further, all these things that are common in older people are signs, at least in our culture, that the person is nearing his demise, and so he is devalued.

In some societies, the elderly are looked upon as sages, as fountains of knowledge and experiences. Unfortunately, not here.

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@Phoenix32890,

Phoenix32890 wrote:

Interesting comparison here. Many people believe that hearing aids are a sign that a person is getting older. If a young person needs hearing aids, people often assume that he is disabled, which is entirely different.

So if we look further, all these things that are common in older people are signs, at least in our culture, that the person is nearing his demise, and so he is devalued.

In some societies, the elderly are looked upon as sages, as fountains of knowledge and experiences. Unfortunately, not here.

Yeah, too bad that. I've love to be thought of as a sage...and as a font of knowledge.

Oh, well.

Maybe in my next life!

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

But in EVERY ad...at some point the seller will make a statement about "our hearing aids are almost invisible" or "nobody will even realize you are wearing them."

I've been wearing hearing aids for well over a decade. I want them visible. Sometimes, I even turn my head so people will see one of them. Sure enough, they see the hearing aid and mumble a little louder.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I cannot imagine anyone thinking less of someone because of knowledge of their age.

Good example. Again, it's part of a social game, "keeping up appearances". In prehistoric times there may have been good reasons for humans to hide their frailties, out of fear of being seen as physically weak by enemies/predators, or worse, socially useless by their tribe.

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@Phoenix32890,

More common are bifocals. I've been told multiple times that I should get progressive glasses because bifocals make you look old.

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@engineer,

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More common are bifocals. I've been told multiple times that I should get progressive glasses because bifocals make you look old.

I have been wearing progressives for years. The advantage of them is better sight at more focal lengths. And yes, there is a concept that bifocals=old. IMO it is
preferable to appear older, than to go around squinting, which causes more lines around the eyes. Rolling Eyes

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