Public Servant ?

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Why are taxpayers, most of whom will never receive a pension, willing to pay taxes to fund pensions for government employees?

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Type: Question • Score: 3 • Views: 537 • Replies: 27

[+5] - hightor - 09/03/2023[quote]I have a high opinion of those members of the U.S. armed forces who have served us in combat. [/quote] What about the U.S. armed forces members who [i]support[/i] the troops in combat? What...
[+5] - hightor - 09/03/2023[quote]Is it good public policy for the government to offer all of its employees a monthly income for life after working for maybe 20 years funded by all the taxpayers while those who worked in the...
[+4] - hightor - 09/03/2023[quote]I guess I will have to live with your low opinion of me.[/quote] I don't know [i]you.[/i] I only have a low opinion of your opinion. [quote]The only case I know of where people working...

@gollum,

Probably prefer to pay taxes to going to jail

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@gollum,

Frack! FFS!!!

Everyone deserves a pension. That doesn't mean we should **** on those fortunate enough to be in this position. A government pension is a benefit one deserves when working a particularly difficult and thankless job. That being a public servant, who is "working" to benefit rest of society.

Gov. has figured they need to prioritize the needs of their workforce.

Most private sector industries have figured that greed and self-interest for the top 1% is top priority. Profits and literal $BNs to their top executives as their only main and only priority.

1 Reply

@tsarstepan,

tsarstepan-

Sometimes.

Some (most?) government jobs pay more than the private sector equivalent.

Some government jobs are not particularly difficult or thankless (au contraire).

Millions of private-sector jobs are poorly paid and have harsh working conditions.

1 Reply

@gollum,

gollum wrote:

tsarstepan-

Sometimes.

Some (most?) government jobs pay more than the private sector equivalent.

Some government jobs are not particularly difficult or thankless (au contraire).

Millions of private-sector jobs are poorly paid and have harsh working conditions.

That's pretty stupid not because you think I'm not claiming its true. But because you're redundantly stating facts everyone knows about. There is NO CONNECTION between gov pensions and private sector jobs who aren't regulated (or at least not regulated enough). The impetus is on the private sector to treat their workers better and safer. It would be greatly appreciated if government forced more regulations against these criminal and greedy corporations. But we have self-serving conservatives (like you?) who will do everything they can to stop these regulations and almost everyone loses but the corp. executives who continue to grant themselves $BNs in yearly bonuses from their evergrowing, record-breaking profit margins.

1 Reply

@tsarstepan,

Does gollum think that Federal employees don't pay into their pension plans? It's not exactly a gift, when you contribute to it. I worked in DOD for 32 years and I had to pay into my pension plan....and now I am collecting my retirement. So with my retirement pay, I still pay taxes (I live in Maryland, my taxes are high), sales tax, property tax, annual tax on my income by the Federal Government, the State and County I live in. So now that I'm retired, I pay a number of people to do the work I can no longer do, so gollum needs to thank me for staying alive long enough to provide jobs to all those folks who are probably not getting a pension from their company. (They probably get Social Security). And by the way, I don't receive Social Security because I have a DOD pension........I suppose you can just say I'm retired from the deep state.

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@glitterbag,

We have two different kinds of "public servants" here in Germany:
the German civil servants called Beamte (men, singular Beamter, more commonly der Beamte) or Beamtinnen (women, singular Beamtin) have a privileged legal status.
The Civil Service Law is based on the Basic Law,

Quote:

Article 33
(Equal citizenship – Public service)
[...]
(4) The exercise of sovereign authority on a regular basis shall, as a rule, be entrusted to members of the public service who stand in a relationship of service and loyalty defined by public law.

(5) The law governing the public service shall be regulated and developed with due regard to the traditional principles of the professional civil service.

The traditional principles include:

- the duty of civil servants - to neutrality and loyalty to the constitution,
- the principle of lifelong employment,
- the principle of merit, according to which civil servants are to be selected solely on the basis of their suitability, ability and professional performance, and
- the prohibition of strikes.

The other German public employees (called Angestellte) are generally subject to the same laws and regulations as employees in the private sector.

The tradition of classifying only some public employees as Beamte dates back to the "enlightened rule" of monarchs practised in 18th-century Prussia and other German states.

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@glitterbag,

glitterbag-

I think that government employee pensions are generally better for the employee than not receiving a pension in the private sector. I believe that pensions are becoming rare in the private sector. I thank you for your service and for your participation in able2know.

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If people choose to work for a company that doesn't offer a pension, that is their choice.

If people choose to work somewhere for **** pay, that is also their choice.

If people choose to not save for their old age, that is also their choice.

People can choose to better their situation.

1 Reply

@Mame,

Mame-

Is it good public policy for the government to offer all of its employees a monthly income for life after working for maybe 20 years funded by all the taxpayers while those who worked in the private sector are out in the cold when they are old?

2 Replies

@gollum,

So, you feel the same way about members of the armed forces? You know who I'm talking about, the men and women who serve our country regardless of the risks.

2 Replies

@glitterbag,

glitterbag-

I have a high opinion of those members of the U.S. armed forces who have served us in combat.

1 Reply

@gollum,

Quote:

I have a high opinion of those members of the U.S. armed forces who have served us in combat.

What about the U.S. armed forces members who support the troops in combat? What about the members of the U.S. armed forces who are trained and ready to enter combat when the need arises? What about the members of the U.S. armed forces who help US citizens and communities when natural disasters occur?

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@gollum,

Quote:

Is it good public policy for the government to offer all of its employees a monthly income for life after working for maybe 20 years funded by all the taxpayers while those who worked in the private sector are out in the cold when they are old?

Yes it is – precisely because of people like you who continually denigrate those who work in the field of public service. The promise and security of a pension partially helps to compensate government employees from the widely shared prejudice against civil servants exhibited by conservatives.

2 Replies

@hightor,

hightor-

I guess I will have to live with your low opinion of me. So be it.

I still feel for the people (most people?) who work in private-sector jobs for not great salaries and in more and more cases no or little pension. The jobs may be low level but if an employee doesn't perform, he may be fired.

I think you use the term public service to mean government employee.

I think I man who works in a munitions factory is engaged in public service (ask people in Ukraine).

0 Replies

@hightor,

The only case I know of where people working in public service are denigrated are police officers. Though I recognize that police are denigrated, I think that it is often unfair.

1 Reply

@gollum,

Quote:

I guess I will have to live with your low opinion of me.

I don't know you. I only have a low opinion of your opinion.

Quote:

The only case I know of where people working in public service are denigrated are police officers.

How about cases like a person starting a thread on a message board to complain about the fact that civil servants get pensions funded by taxpayers? These are often the same people who attack labor unions – one of the few ways that blue collar workers could get decent pensions.

Or claiming that people who work for the government earn more money than their counterparts in the private sector? As a matter of fact, they don't.

Or referring to IRS, FBI, and ATFE agents as "jack-booted thugs"?

Quote:

I still feel for the people (most people?) who work in private-sector jobs for not great salaries and in more and more cases no or little pension.

Your beef should be with the corporations which don't pay decent wages to their hourly workers or don't set up opt-out retirement accounts for them.

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@gollum,

Number 1: Because this is a democracy and paying taxes is the law. You don’t get to choose which ones you want to pay .

Number 2: your premise is flawed. Federal employees mainly do valuable and good work and, for the main part, the public benefits from their labor. And they pay good money into their pension.

1 Reply

@Ragman,

It boils down to this: It’s that ‘public servant’ label … you want to take literally!

1 Reply

@Ragman,

Ragman wrote:

It boils down to this: It’s that ‘public servant slave’ label … you want to take literally!

Fixed that for ya.

Why do public servants get good pensions, etc.? It's for the exact same reason why any employer offers benefits—to attract and retain better talent.

Or would it be better to just treat public employees like ****, have a revolving door, and then taxpayers can pay for the costs of continually hiring and retraining people?

Your taxes also—quelle horreur!—pay the salaries and part of the retirement benefits of those commie pinko bedwetters we like to call teachers, librarians, crossing guards, firefighters, and letter carriers.

Providing good benefits is one of the ways that public servants aren't just the cheapest/lowest bidder. Not to be confused with public works projects, which often can be.

1 Reply

Public Servant ?

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