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Why Liberals ignore Native Americans when discussing vaccine resistance.

 
 
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 05:11 am
The threads being written to mock vaccine resisters a stereotypical target; they are White, Christian, ignorant and Trump supporting. It is an easy target, a strawman people with no value as human beings. Reality is far more complicated that they pretend.

The demographic with the highest percentage of vaccine resisters are Native Americans. A vaccine resister is defined as someone who says that they don't plan to ever get vaccinated. These Native Americans (like the liberal White strawman) are fearful of government and resistant to medicine they see as dangerous.

Of course, Native Americans have a good reason to fear government and forcing any medicine on someone in this community who doesn't want it should make the most strident political liberal uncomfortable.

And that is the point there are emotional, cultural and historical reasons that people reject the vaccine. Ignoring the diversity of the human experience, even in the interest of public health, does real social damage.

The constant political attacks on "the unvaccinated" as a political stereotype are not helpful to anyone.
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 05:16 am
@maxdancona,
Just to be clear.

1. I am vaccinated. I believe that vaccines are safe, effective and important. I support public health efforts to encourage people to be vaccinated with the goal of getting as many people vaccinated as possible.

2. I am against vaccine mandates. I am against the political attacks. I am against the stereotyping and outrage against people who choose to not be vaccinated.

These are two separate issues.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 05:46 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Of course, Native Americans have a good reason to fear government...

List some of the specific fears and why they justify vaccine refusal.

Quote:
And that is the point there are emotional, cultural and historical reasons that people reject the vaccine.

Are those "reasons" or misconceptions?

Quote:
Ignoring the diversity of the human experience, even in the interest of public health, does real social damage.

That's very vague. What "real social damage" is done by criticizing people's refusal to get vaccinated? Can you explain how this damages society more than large numbers of people getting sick, 800,000 dead, tens of thousands of elective procedures being cancelled, and twenty per cent of our healthcare workers leaving the profession?

Quote:
The constant political attacks on "the unvaccinated" as a political stereotype are not helpful to anyone.

As opposed to the helpfulness of your incessant defense of "the unvaccinated" as cultural stereotypes?

And, of course, there's this:

Despite obstacles, Native Americans have the nation’s highest COVID-19 vaccination rate

maxdancona
 
  -2  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 06:07 am
@hightor,
Just 50 years ago, Native Americans faced forced sterilization under the auspices of the National Health Service. It shouldn't surprise you that many are very wary of the government public health efforts.
hightor
 
  2  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 06:31 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Just 50 years ago, Native Americans faced forced sterilization under the auspices of the National Health Service.

This "forced sterilization" was accomplished by an innoculation with a vaccine which had been administered to over 60% of the general population?
Quote:
It shouldn't surprise you that many are very wary of the government public health efforts.

Most of the criticism I hear from the tribes concerns the lack of government support for health services on reservations.

And, of course, there's this:

High vaccination rate among Native American population
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 08:09 am
Quote:
Mass sterilization to most people is just an event,” Remi Bald Eagle told me recently, holding back tears. “But to us, that’s family that never made it here.” The sterilization campaign that the Indian Health Service carried out in the 1960s and ’70s afflicted somewhere between 25 and 40 percent of Native American women of childbearing age nationwide. Sterilizations were performed through coercion and without informed consent, a grievous violation of the physical integrity and personal agency of the women affected. On the Cheyenne River Reservation, the sovereign Lakota nation in South Dakota where Bald Eagle lives, the campaign left deep scars in the community. “There’s always that loss,” said Bald Eagle.


Quote:
“The vaccine is an event we have to figure out how it’s going to affect our families for generations to come,” said Bald Eagle. “When we make a decision to get the vaccine, we’re not just balancing whether or not that vaccine is good for me, but whether or not there’s other things involved in this vaccine.”

“Every decision we make, whether it’s putting our children in school, getting a vaccine, the food we eat…is overcast by the shadow of tyranny” Bald Eagle told me. “The wheels of Manifest Destiny are still full of blood, and it’s ours.”


https://www.thenation.com/article/society/coronavirus-native-american-vaccine/
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 08:12 am
@hightor,
You seem to see what you want to see Hightor. You ignore the rest.

1. Yes it is true the vaccination rate is high among Native Americans. There has been a big effort to provide vaccinations. I agree this is a good thing.

2. It is also true that the number of people who have decided to never get the vaccination is high among Native Americans.

Both of these things are true.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 10:03 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
The sterilization campaign that the Indian Health Service carried out in the 1960s and ’70s afflicted somewhere between 25 and 40 percent of Native American women of childbearing age nationwide. Sterilizations were performed through coercion and without informed consent, a grievous violation of the physical integrity and personal agency of the women affected.

This bears no resemblance at all to the current vaccination campaign. Vaccination Not Equal Sterilization – as a self-proclaimed "scientist" I thought you might know that.
Quote:
“When we make a decision to get the vaccine, we’re not just balancing whether or not that vaccine is good for me, but whether or not there’s other things involved in this vaccine.”

You seem to have fallen for the "Noble Savage" mythology that you're always criticizing others for. There's no justification for subjecting people to infection from a pandemic today because their land was brutally colonized in past centuries. How does dying from covid heal any historical scars?
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 10:09 am
@hightor,
You are off base here Hightor.

1. Many Native Americans are saying that they will never get a covid vaccine.

2. They are talking about the sterilization campaign as one reason that they don't trust the vaccination effort.

In the opinion of these Native Americans, there are cultural and historical reasons that they don't want the vaccine. You can decide if they are "noble savages" or not.

My position is that human beings are able to express their own feelings and make their own decisions. They are expressing legitimate historical and cultural reasons for not wanting to have the vaccine.
hightor
 
  2  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 10:38 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:

1. Many Native Americans are saying that they will never get a covid vaccine.

As have many other people.
Quote:

2. They are talking about the sterilization campaign as one reason that they don't trust the vaccination effort.

But those are very different instances of medical intervention. Vaccination Not Equal Sterilization
Quote:
They are expressing legitimate historical and cultural reasons for not wanting to have the vaccine.

If those reasons were "legitimate" one would expect the rate of vaccination to be significantly lower. Obviously many tribal members see things differently and aren't using history as an excuse to remain misinformed. Your logic says that because Europeans destroyed N.A. culture and USAmericans sterilized tribal members in the past, that population should be subjected to the full effects of a pandemic today? Get sick to spite the white man? Fortunately many American Indians have been counseled by tribal elders who have overcome this misconceived legacy of colonialism.

You're the one who's off base.

Quote:
For tribal members who choose to get vaccinated, access to the vaccine and as much information that’s known about it are not the hurdles. Chances are high in this tight-knit community that the person administering the vaccine was a schoolmate or at a minimum a familiar face. CRST Tribal Health infection control nurse and tribal member Molly Longbrake, who lost her mother to Covid-19, regularly travels 90 minutes or more, round trip, to administer the vaccine to people living in the reservation’s smallest communities. She and her team, which consists of three providers, eight nurses, and 17 support staff, also go door to door and make phone calls to offer information. “Education, education, education,” is how Longbrake said they are addressing those who say no, need more time, or ask for more information. “I’m not ready to let our guard down by any means, especially with the new strains that are popping up,” she told me.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 10:45 am
This thread is about empathy. Instead of seeing the vaccine resistant as a stereotype, I was hoping that people could understand the very human emotions as well as way culture and historical experience inform what for many is a very personal decision.

To me, the experience of Native Americans is relevant. For me it is easy to have empathy for Native Americans who choose to reject the vaccine. My point was going to be that there are emotional and cultural reasons for many people who don't want the vaccine, it is a diverse group of real human beings.

If you are unable to have empathy for Native Americans who reject the virus, than I guess this thread doesn't work.

To me, forcing Native American people to get a vaccine that they don't want is especially troubling given our history of pushing things on them. But that is just my opinion.
hightor
 
  3  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 11:02 am
@maxdancona,
There are probably many anti-vaxxers with whom I might have a certain degree of empathy. The only ones for whom I don't express any empathy are the ones who have politicized the choice, the MAGAtards. My hope is that people who are personally troubled by, but not militantly opposed to, vaccination may overcome their fear. Just because I have empathy for them doesn't mean they should be consigned to illness and possibly death.
roger
 
  1  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 11:12 am
@maxdancona,
I don't know about vaccination rates here. The town in about 1/3 Native American. They have been the first to use masks, though, and the last to put them aside. They take this virus seriously.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 11:41 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
There are probably many anti-vaxxers with whom I might have a certain degree of empathy. The only ones for whom I don't express any empathy are the ones who have politicized the choice, the MAGAtards.

Except, it was the left who politicized the vaccine.

And belittling the intellect of people who don't share your political views is kind of childish.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 11:46 am
@roger,
Masks and vaccines are very different, and of course Native American cultures are diverse.

I was reading about the Navajo nation response, a big part of the issue is informed consent. Of course, consent can't be coerced. In the 1970s forced sterilization was coerced. The worst thing to do is to call unvaccinated people "idiots".

Instead of outrage, there should be outreach, and the acceptance that no matter what you do, people have control over their own bodies and some part of any population will say "no" for their own personal reasons.

hightor
 
  2  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 12:14 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Except, it was the left who politicized the vaccine.

Whether it did or didn't, that fact remains that there is currently an organized, militant anti-vaccination campaign being conducted by some people on the right which is helping to prolong the pandemic while people on the left have high vaccination rates.
Quote:
And belittling the intellect of people who don't share your political views is kind of childish.

But what if they really are engaging in stupid behavior? If it weren't for your stratospheric IQ you'd probably have been an antivaxxer yourself.
hightor
 
  2  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 12:23 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
In the 1970s forced sterilization was coerced.

Why do you keep confusing these? Vaccination Not Equal Sterilization

Quote:
The worst thing to do is to call unvaccinated people "idiots".

Why? Does being unvaccinated confer some sort of intellectual superiority? Surely some of them could be "idiots".

Quote:
Instead of outrage, there should be outreach...

The two are not mutually exclusive. Healthcare professionals keep caring for unvaccinated patients, at some risk to themselves, without communicating their frustration.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 12:49 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
If it weren't for your stratospheric IQ you'd probably have been an antivaxxer yourself.

I am indeed grateful for my mind. I hope I don't suffer anything like Alzheimer's when I age.


hightor wrote:
Why do you keep confusing these? Vaccination Not Equal Sterilization

I think Max's point is that sterilization leads to mistrust, and mistrust leads to vaccine skepticism.

I didn't realize that a2k had codes like that for symbols.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 03:23 pm
@maxdancona,
Ha! You knew I was in Navajo country? Actually, I worked on the Rez for over six years and about 3/4 of the crew was Navajo.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Wed 8 Dec, 2021 06:00 pm
@roger,
I don't think you mentioned that. I think I mentioned I visited the Navajo reservation while researching multicultural education. I didn't stay there for any amount of time, but that was an important experience for me.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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