0
   

Defining Democracy in a time of Political Extremism.

 
 
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 12:17 am
Gun Rights are not part of democracy.
Transgendered Rights are not part of democracy.
Nor is either side of the abortion debate; Right to Life or Right to Choice
Nor are taxes or unions or any other of the myriad political battles we have.

Democracy doesn't mean "my side should win". Quite the contrary, democracy recognizes that there are political differences with no absolute truth and let's the people decide the issues of the day.

I propose there are four basic facts that define democracy.

- Free Speech, the ability to express unpopular opinions and oppose the current majority.

- A definition of citizenship, who are enfranchised to choose a government.

- The rule of law. A set of rules that will be followed objectively in governing no matter who is in power.

- An electoral system that allows the citizens to choose a government under the rule of law.

If these four facts are present, you have a democracy (no matter what the government does about abortion or transgendered rights).

Can we agree on this basic definition?

 
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 01:35 am
@maxdancona,

https://able2know.org/topic/559086-1
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 10:40 am
Your definition is wrong. This is the entire definition:

"An electoral system that allows the citizens to choose a government under the rule of law"
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 10:49 am
@Brandon9000,
Your definition encompasses my second, third and forth points.

I will argue that without Free Speech, you can't have democracy.
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 12:57 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Gun Rights are not part of democracy.
Transgendered Rights are not part of democracy.
Nor is either side of the abortion debate; Right to Life or Right to Choice
Nor are taxes or unions or any other of the myriad political battles we have.
1. I don't know of anyone making any of those assertions.
2. Are you trying to make up an argument that doesn't even exist?

3. One side note: I do consider (voting rights) to be a part of democracy.



Quote:
Democracy doesn't mean "my side should win

1. I don't know of anyone even making that assertion.
2. Are you trying to make up an argument that doesn't even exist?
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 01:13 pm
@Real Music,
1. I am glad you don't seem to disagree with any of my points.

2. As you seem to imply, if everyone agrees then there is no real argument here.

One person can't "make up" an argument. An argument takes at least two people. If everyone agrees with me, then there is no argument to be had.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 01:50 pm
maxdancona wrote:
Gun Rights are not part of democracy.

OK, but they are a part of freedom, which is why the US is the only free nation left in the world.

Off topic I know. Carry on with your democracy discussion.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 01:58 pm
@oralloy,
Janis Joplin wrote:
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose


"Freedom" means anything you want it to mean (and is one of the most interesting words in the English language). Everyone from Che Guevara, to Jospeph McCarthy, to both sides of the Civil War appealed to freedom. It means both everything and nothing.


oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 02:13 pm
@maxdancona,
No. Progressives pretend that words can mean whatever they want them to mean, but freedom has a definite meaning that was established thousands of years ago.


"Ceorl, also spelled Churl, the free peasant who formed the basis of society in Anglo-Saxon England. His free status was marked by his right to bear arms, his attendance at local courts, and his payment of dues directly to the king. His wergild, the sum that his family could accept in place of vengeance if he were killed, was valued at 200 shillings."

http://www.britannica.com/topic/ceorl


"Fyrd, tribal militia-like arrangement existing in Anglo-Saxon England from approximately AD 605. Local in character, it imposed military service upon every able-bodied free male. It was probably the duty of the ealderman, or sheriff, to call out and lead the fyrd. Fines imposed for neglecting the fyrd varied with the status of the individual, landholders receiving the heaviest fines and common labourers the lightest."

http://www.britannica.com/topic/fyrd
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 02:21 pm
@maxdancona,
Why must democracy defined in times of political extremism?

It is a well known classic yet timely paradox faced by democracies: the degree to which the political system should tolerate parties that are not themselves tolerant of political or social pluralism.
The threat posed to democracy by extremist parties and movements in Europe is a fact since at least two decades - and no-one really found a remedy. (Since 1999, the European Consortium for Political Research has a "Standing Group" Extremism and Democracy [>website<.)
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 02:25 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Is there any reason why democracy has to go undefined in periods of political extremism?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 04:50 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The word "democracy" must be defined just like any word. If it isn't defined than it has no meaning. What I suggesting is that the two political extremes (left and right) are each defining democracy in terms of their own ideological goals.

I suggested a basic definition of "democracy". Walter, I would be interested to know if you disagree with my basic points from the OP.

Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2021 12:58 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I suggested a basic definition of "democracy".

Democracy literally means "rule of the people". Having a say in one's own government, freely expressing one's own opinion.

The Weimar Republic had allowed its enemies to destroy democracy. Every provision of the Weimar Constitution could be changed by a two-thirds majority, even fundamental rights could be suspended and democracy eliminated.

Unlike the Weimar Republic, the democracy of our the Basic Law is not only a formal democracy, but a set of values, the free democratic basic order with its inviolable principles.

Since democracy is described in our Basic Law, and the principles of Article 20 can never be changed (Article 79(3) Basic Law), I am more or less "trapped" in this definition.
Quote:
Article 20
[Constitutional principles – Right of resistance]

(1) The Federal Republic of Germany is a democratic and social federal state.
(2) All state authority is derived from the people. It shall be exercised by the people through elections and other votes and through specific legislative, executive and judicial bodies.
(3) The legislature shall be bound by the constitutional order, the executive and the judiciary by law and justice.
(4) All Germans shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order if no other remedy is available.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2021 02:46 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Your definition encompasses my second, third and forth points.

I will argue that without Free Speech, you can't have democracy.


That may be true but it doesn't make it the definition of the word democracy.
0 Replies
 
 

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Defining Democracy in a time of Political Extremism.
Copyright © 2022 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 01/26/2022 at 08:28:40