On Extremism: My side is the only side that is right.

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- White Supremacy is wrong.
- Looting and arson are wrong.
- Racist attacks are wrong.
- Shutting down conservative speakers is wrong.

Why can't liberals admit that all of this is wrong. It is true that you can't compare looting or building down a business with Nazis. They are two different things. Sure... the Holocaust is far worse than any BLM protest. There is no argument there. But who cares? It is still wrong to burn down a building.

The political left wants to be beyond criticism. And talk about the rather absurd excesses of the left and they will complain about "both sides". What they are really saying is "you can't criticize us... because Nazis".

Of course there is all kinds of craziness coming out of the political left, some of it is criminal. I can do two things; criticize the left and condemn right wing Nazis.

The idea that we have to pick sides is a lie (and yes, both sides right now are crazy and extreme).

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I agree with nearly everything that you just said.

I do have one small nitpick: Nazis and neonazis are not rightwing. Rather, they take the worst ideas of both the right and the left and merge them into an unholy mixture.

EDIT: Oops. And a second objection: How are the right crazy and extreme right now?

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Quote:

My side is the only side that is right.

I don't know why anyone would choose a side which they believe to be wrong.

Quote:

The idea that we have to pick sides is a lie (and yes, both sides right now are crazy and extreme).

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimages3.memedroid.com%2Fimages%2FUPLOADED316%2F5a50d07f921b6.jpeg&f=1&nofb=1

Centrists are so courageous!

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@hightor,

Damn right we are. And that is an excellent graphic that you just posted.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

The idea that we have to pick sides is a lie...

No, an "idea" can't be a lie. It may be false but that doesn't make it a lie. A lie is a statement. You really need an editor.

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@hightor,

Showing that the left has gone crazy is easy. The tacit support for looting in BLM protests. The calls to fire professors and shout down speakers in campus. Defunding the police.

The left has become all about outrage and exageration. This is counterproductive in moving forward constructively in a diverse country.

1 Reply

@hightor,

You are quibbling with word choice (you are wrong, but I don't feel like quibbling today).

You have failed to respond to the opening post.

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@maxdancona,

You seem to define political positions by the citing the only most extreme examples of behavior. You indict a whole class of people because of the actions of a few.

Quote:

The tacit support for looting in BLM protests.

Accusing "the left", en masse, of "tacit" support is deceptive. Tacit means implied, but silent, so anyone who isn't on record as condemning looting can be condemned as supporting it. I have no problem condemning looting but I don't consider it characteristic of the BLM movement. There were urban riots long before BLM.

Quote:

The calls to fire professors and shout down speakers in campus.

How widespread is this? Really. The campus conservatives invite a white supremacist and the campus liberals protest because they don't think their school should be a forum for racism. It's predictable; college administrations merely need to arrange of off-campus venues.

Quote:

Defunding the police.

That was a three word slogan not a manifesto. It helped to make people reconsider the whole manner of policing, especially in non-white neighborhoods where the cops are more or less an occupying force. Community policing isn't an "extremist" idea, it's a constructive one.

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The left has become all about outrage and exageration.

And your statement itself is an example of both!

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

You are quibbling with word choice...

No, I'm criticizing your sloppy use of language.

Quote:

You have failed to respond to the opening post.

It's not worth responding to – I'd be repeating myself since you've made all these points before.

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@hightor,

If you are going to defend absolutism, then defend it. That is what this thread is about. You don't have to post on this thread if you don't want to discuss the topic.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Why would I defend absolutism? You seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you must be an "extremist". But really, considering yourself to be right doesn't mean you are an absolutist. I consider my stance on the 2nd Amendment to be well thought out; oralloy feels the same way about his view of the topic. While I don't know this to be the case, I think you would find his position a lot more extreme than my own.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

- White Supremacy is wrong.
- Looting and arson are wrong.
- Racist attacks are wrong.
- Shutting down conservative speakers is wrong.

Why can't liberals admit that all of this is wrong. It is true that you can't compare looting or building down a business with Nazis. They are two different things. Sure... the Holocaust is far worse than any BLM protest. There is no argument there. But who cares? It is still wrong to burn down a building.

The political left wants to be beyond criticism. And talk about the rather absurd excesses of the left and they will complain about "both sides". What they are really saying is "you can't criticize us... because Nazis".

Of course there is all kinds of craziness coming out of the political left, some of it is criminal. I can do two things; criticize the left and condemn right wing Nazis.

The idea that we have to pick sides is a lie (and yes, both sides right now are crazy and extreme).

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

We heard you the first time.

I wrote:

It's not worth responding to – I'd be repeating myself since you've made all these points before.

Quote:

Why can't liberals admit that all of this is wrong.

It might have something to do with your condescending attitude. People object to being made to "admit" to a list which is derived from your ideological narrative©. Your attempt at extracting a confession of guilt is simplistic and manipulative. For the record, I haven't seen anyone on this site defending "all of this".

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@hightor,

My thesis is that a rational person

1) Accepts facts as facts even when they don't fit their own narrative.
2) Listen to other points of view, and is able to see when a opposing narrative has a valid point.
3) Understands that a narrative (including their own) represents one way of seeing things. A narrative is not a fact, nor is it an absolute truth.

You seem to think you are scoring points by saying I have an ideological narrative. Everyone has at least one narrative... and I happen to have several. There is nothing wrong with an ideological narrative.

The problem is when the narrative is treated as truth, and the facts that don't fit the narrative are ignored or explained away.

Liberals in the US have become extreme, meaning that they have a narrative that they are pushing as absolute truth even when it doesn't fit the facts.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

Liberals in the US have become extreme, meaning that they have a narrative that they are pushing as absolute truth even when it doesn't fit the facts.

This is an overly broad, sweeping generalization. The differences between the two approaches to government, which we are calling "liberal" and "conservative", have become more glaring, especially when it comes to taking government action to address domestic problems (poverty, racism, gun violence) and non-military global threats (climate change, immigration, pandemics). This has pushed the temperature of the debate up a few notches, primarily on the extremes. And it really looks to me as if there is more of this on the conservative side, where huge numbers of Republican voters oppose public health measures, reject the legitimacy of the '20 election, and seek to minimize any response to global warming.

You, for reasons of your defective ideological narrative©, seem to be hung up on riots that you associate with BLM and your mistaken belief that "liberals" who don't specifically condemn rioting and looting are "extremists" who "tacitly support" violence. But, in truth, you have no idea how many liberals fit this depiction. You've basically made up a straw man, the "extremist liberal", because it allows you occupy your self-styled, oh-so-moderate-and-reasonable "center". Anyone who truly cared about our country, and specifically our democracy, would be addressing the majority of his complaints to the political right, not the activists who oppose them.

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https://issuepedia.org/wikiup/thumb/3/3c/Idt20070815.png/300px-Idt20070815.png

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@hightor,

Today's liberals turn every issue into outrage and take every reasonable position to a ridiculous extreme. In this silly cartoon the liberal extremists would be screaming

"DEFUND BLENDERS".

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

And that is an excellent graphic that you just posted.

Did you change the graphic? I don't quite remember, but the one that is there now is kind of meh. It seems like there was a cooler one, even though I can't quite remember it.

0 Replies

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