7
   

The Obsolete Science Behind Roe v. Wade

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 2 Nov, 2021 07:56 pm
@maxdancona,
LOL you do know that the anti-abortion groups in throwing up so many barriers to having a safe abortion are the ones who bare almost the whole blame for late abortions increasing?

I feel for the poor women of Texas who have to somehow find the means to travel out of state to have abortions where the state is also allowing anyone they can show aid those women to be sue for ten thousands dollars.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Tue 2 Nov, 2021 07:58 pm
@BillRM,
I am not quite sure what you are laughing about. I agree, there are extremists on the pro-life side too.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 2 Nov, 2021 08:08 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
We need to draw a line between when you can end a pregnancy and when you can't. If you are arguing that this is birth... a fully healthy baby ready to be born can be terminated until the instant it leaves the womb, then make this argument honestly.

Otherwise, we are going to have to draw a line. I find it easier to accept abortions in the first trimester.


Love your straw man argument as very late abortions was never anything but very very very rare and used as a weapon to justify controlling women wombs.

Make it as hard as possible for a woman to get an abortion and when if it can be delay long enough used the delay as an excused to stop women from having an abortion.

Now Texas is down to six weeks so they are not even hiding what they are doing.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 2 Nov, 2021 08:16 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am not quite sure what you are laughing about. I agree, there are extremists on the pro-life side too.


Those anti abortion extremists are using the state and the state power to block women from controlling their wombs.

Very late abortions was and still are not anything but very rare and most of those cases are not used on healthy babies to be but babies who if born have weeks of pain to live and or to save the mother life. Oh and to reduce the numbers 0f fetuses in the womb so some of them have a chance of survival/

maxdancona
 
  1  
Tue 2 Nov, 2021 09:28 pm
@BillRM,
You have no problem using state power to force women to get vaccinated against their will.

There is an interesting dictate here. Could you clarify under what circumstances the state can dictate what a woman does with her body.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 05:31 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:


How extreme are you on this issue, Bill?

1. Do you believe that a woman has a right to terminate a fully viable and health baby even after its due date (as long as it hasn't been born yet)?

2. Do you believe that only in medical emergencies (i.e. the life of the mother or the health of the baby are at risk) does a woman have a right to terminate a baby that is fully developed?

These are two different things.

If you are really saying that a woman can end a fully developed healthy baby for any reason at its due date.... then say this clearly. Because, my point is that most reasonable people draw a line somewhere. The question then is where you draw the line.

It is easy for me to accept abortions in the first trimester. This is a personal decision, and I don't defend it logically other than to say that in the first trimester the fetus is pretty basic and lacks most cognitive skills. Of course this line is necessarily subjective.

I have trouble accepting abortions in the last trimester. I have seen a birth, and I believe (again subjectively but based on real experiences with pregnancy and birth) that a baby is certainly a human being at birth and must reach a state of being human sometime before birth.

The question is where do we draw the line.[/size] I don't think that is an easy question.




The question actually being asked here is, "Where do we draw the line for when a woman can decide to terminate a pregnancy occurring in her own body?"

My opinion: There shouldn't be any "WE" involved. That is a decision each pregnant woman should be able to make individually...without anyone else being able to dictate which choice should be made...or when it can be made.

Any woman should be able to make the decision to terminate a pregnancy occurring in her own body at any time during the pregnancy.

Right up until the last day.

Yeah, you are correct...we (society) would not allow a woman to kill a baby (rightly so) once it is actually born. That has nothing to do with the question of whether or not she can choose to terminate a PREGNANCY occurring in her own body.

My guess is that almost no women would ever wait until the last minute before birth to exercise this option. But until the baby is actually born into the world...YES, she should have the right to end a pregnancy occurring in her own body. That would obviate the notion that society can dictate to her when (or if) the option can be made.

"WE" should not have the right to "draw the line." SHE does. After birth...when the pregnancy is no longer occurring in her own body...that changes.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 05:41 am
@Frank Apisa,
Thank you Frank.
0 Replies
 
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 06:00 am
@Stacy24,
Stacy24 wrote:
Why do you think it's OK to take away the body of a late term pregnancy baby?

What you're describing is a fallacy. It just doesn't happen that way. No person who is 7-8-9 months along decides one morning to end their pregnancy. They are wearing maternity clothes, have shopped for the arrival for clothes, diapers, cribs and toys. They have wanted this child to come into their world and lives.

But things do happen. There are extenuating circumstances that make the pregnancy unviable. The fetal heart stops beating. The spine is completely exposed. The brain is outside the skull. A mother's blood pressure drops to dangerous levels. Or internal hemorrhaging.

Nothing is more heartbreaking that these scenarios. And all of them are considered "abortion" measures. These are the reasons why your whole argument is baseless as it is a medical necessity, not a moral choice.

Stacy24 wrote:
Adult women have every from of birth control available to them, and can choose not to engage in the act instead of resorting to killing.
And it's your right to have that opinion. Just as I think you're really wrong.

Stacy24 wrote:
What choice do fully formed babies have?
None.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 06:16 am
I Wish I’d Had A ‘Late-Term Abortion’ Instead Of Having My Daughter
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 06:43 am
I find this idea troubling. A full term baby can be killed in the womb. Minutes later when it leaves the womb, killing it is murder.

This distinction is based only on location, the development of the baby has nothing to do with it. I find that troubling.
BillRM
 
  2  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 06:55 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I find this idea troubling. A full term baby can be killed in the womb. Minutes later when it leaves the womb, killing it is murder.

This distinction is based only on location, the development of the baby has nothing to do with it. I find that troubling.


You are using a situation that does not happen to allow the society to control a woman body.

Very late abortions does not happen unless it a matter of life and death of the mother or an infant with zero chance of survival or both.

Love the idea of some mostly male government officer telling a woman when and how she can control her womb.

The great state of Texas is now on the side of rapists due to the kind of thinking you are promoting.
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 07:00 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You have no problem using state power to force women to get vaccinated against their will.

There is an interesting dictate here. Could you clarify under what circumstances the state can dictate what a woman does with her body.



A pregnant woman is not a risk to everyone around her and she is not risking carrying a deadly disease either!!!!!!!!!!
maxdancona
 
  0  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 07:02 am
@BillRM,
Cut the gender politics ****, Hightor.

You are a man, here to argue with the woman who started this thread about abortion. If you don't think men have a say in this, then you should shut up.

maxdancona
 
  0  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 07:04 am
@BillRM,
Oooookkkkkaaaay Bill,

You are arguing that in the case of vaccinations it is Ok to control a woman's body because lives are at stake?

Huh.
hightor
 
  1  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 07:18 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Cut the gender politics ****, Hightor.

What are you talking about?
maxdancona
 
  0  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 07:19 am
@hightor,
His nonsensical "mostly male" government official. He is trying to imply that abortion restrictions are imposed by men onto women.

In fact 37% of women believe that abortion should be illegal in "all or most cases" (compared to 42% of men). This is not an issue that is divided by gender.

When Bill (who is a man) tells Stacy (who is a woman) what she should think about abortion in terms of what men are doing to women.... it is a little funny. I hate to use the word "mansplaining", but it kind of describes what Bill is doing here.


Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 07:21 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I find this idea troubling. A full term baby can be killed in the womb. Minutes later when it leaves the womb, killing it is murder.

This distinction is based only on location, the development of the baby has nothing to do with it. I find that troubling.


Thank you, Max. It is always interesting to hear what troubles different people.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 07:21 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Cut the gender politics ****, Hightor.


Why was this addressed to me?
maxdancona
 
  0  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 07:26 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
Cut the gender politics ****, Hightor.


Why was this addressed to me?


Sorry, Hightor.... That was a mistake. I apologize. That should be addressed to Bill.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 3 Nov, 2021 07:26 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Oooookkkkkaaaay Bill,

You are arguing that in the case of vaccinations it is Ok to control a woman's body because lives are at stake?

Huh.


So we are back to a fetus inside a woman body is a human being with full human rights not a group of cells that maybe in the future will become a human with full human rights or maybe not?

Sorry but a woman rights is somewhat at a higher level then a fetus and you or anyone else does not have the right to seize control of a woman womb.
 

 
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