On Extremism: What it is and how to stand up to it.

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

You choose to engage, good.

1. I have clearly defined my definition of extremist in my opening post to this thread. Go back and read it, please.

2, I believe, and I have plainly stated this for years, that there is a strong ideological bias at work on this thread. Part of my thing here is to push back on this bias. I make no apology for this. In fact, I think that pushing back on a group narrative is a good thing (for society at least).

3. On every thread that I enter, I state a position and then I defend it. On many threads push back on what I feel is the ideological bias of many people here (can I call it the dominant bias?). I am not attacking people personally, I am attacking the bias and the failure to recognize facts.

4. I don't believe I have ever called you an "extremist". If I have, then I will apologize, I don't believe you are an extremist. I do believe that you have a tendency to ignore or even misstate facts to support an ideological position. I point it out when you do this. Yes, I am criticising a behavior... but I am not dishing out any criticism that I wouldn't accept.

5. I don't believe you have ever attacked me personally. You are criticizing my behavior, and I can take it. I will have no problems agreeing with you on another thread, it's all fair.

6. I do wish you would show courage in standing up to the name-calling from your own political side. You never engage in name-calling yourself, but you sure never speak up when Izzy or Glitterbag are on their little personal rants. I can obviously take it (I am still here). But it is a little hypocritical for you to decry perceived nastiness, but it ignore it from your own side. I have been called a "fascist", a "misogynist" a "rape-apologist", a "liar" ... I have never seen you discourage this.

I suppose this isn't your responsibility, but it does feel a little hypocritical.

The last time I remember you jumping into the middle of a conversation I was having was about whether global population is growing exponentially.

Now... from other threads I know you are good at math. I have no doubt that if you didn't already know that global population isn't exponential that you know how to do the regression yourself and get the correct answer. More importantly you know the significance of a falling growth rate in a function; you know what a second derivative is.

This is a basic math question. There is a right answer. I know you know perfectly well the correct answer. And, yet you jumped in with the wrong answer because you wanted to support an ideological side.

Then just as quickly you jumped out again. This is a clear case where who is right was more important than what is right. You could have been constructive (or instructive) and provided intelligent insight into the math. Instead you made a misstatement and ran away.

I am not saying you don't have the right to jump in and out as you choose. I can't demand you engage with me nor can I demand that you fix your error. I do feel it is intellectually dishonest, and a little frustrating.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I plead guilty as charged on one count. I belive there is a solid ideological bias (an ideological narrative) here. I believe that ideology causes people here to ignore or deny facts that dont fit. More important the community here is often hostile to dissenting ideas in very personal ways.

What, specifically, are you referring to? Ignore and deny facts that don't fit? When? Who? Hostile to dissenting ideas? Again - when and who?

You can't just make up these generalizations without examples. I asked you for one earlier and you sounded confused.

If you're going to level a charge at an individual or a group, name it and prove it. Otherwise, can it.

2 Replies

@Mame,

Mame has a history of dishonesty and outright denial of progressive misdeeds.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Not appropriate, Oralloy and not helpful. Please stop.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

These two points completely capture your skewed world view here.

maxdoncona wrote:

This is a basic math question. There is a right answer. I know you know perfectly well the correct answer. And, yet you jumped in with the wrong answer because you wanted to support an ideological side.

No, it's a complex math problem, tracking and modeling the growth rates of thousands of human populations, some of which are highly correlated with others, some only minimally correlated. It's a great theoretical problem which is what I thought you were asking about. I love building math models, it's a large part of what I do for a living. Heck, a decent percentage of the world's fiber optics production is manufactured with models that I developed. Oh, but your thread was about politics. Nah, not interested. Still thought my proposed model would been interesting. Would love to see how the time constants change over time especially when lined up to significant world events like wars and more recently the pandemic.

maxdancona wrote:

I do wish you would show courage in standing up to the name-calling from your own political side.

And that's the other thing, the "sides" thing. I don't have a side here, have never met another A2K poster, do not have long PM chats about you behind your back, am not in contact with the A2K political headmasters (no conspiracy lovers, not saying there are such), don't sit at the A2K table at lunch. None of my children post here so I'm not anyone's parent. My understanding is you can report any post you feel violates the TOS. I absolutely do not feel any obligation to police anyone's conduct towards other posters. There are some posters who routinely demonstrate a lack of ability to be civil ... and I use the ignore feature. You call that lack of courage, I call it common sense.

1 Reply

@engineer,

Nonsense Engineer! There is nothing complicated here. This is middle school math. To the question "is human population growing exponentially", there is one simple right answer.

Now back to the topic... note that I am not insulting engineer personally. I am attacking his mathematical claim. I am calling it "nonsense" because mathematically speaking it is nonsense.

Now of course, Engineer is free to continue his disagreement (although I believe he knows enough math to know better). I can take it and Engineer does have the right to push a claim even if it is objectively wrong.

Criticising an argument that someone is making is appropriate on a discussion forum such as this. In this case, my criticism is simply mathematically true.

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@Mame,

Mame wrote:

maxdancona wrote:

I plead guilty as charged on one count. I belive there is a solid ideological bias (an ideological narrative) here. I believe that ideology causes people here to ignore or deny facts that dont fit. More important the community here is often hostile to dissenting ideas in very personal ways.

What, specifically, are you referring to? Ignore and deny facts that don't fit? When? Who? Hostile to dissenting ideas? Again - when and who?

You can't just make up these generalizations without examples. I asked you for one earlier and you sounded confused.

If you're going to level a charge at an individual or a group, name it and prove it. Otherwise, can it.

I would still like an answer to this. You make a charge. Prove it. You wouldn't stand a day in court.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Not appropriate, Oralloy

I strongly disagree. In threads where Mame is actively spouting disingenuous BS, it is appropriate to point out that she is spouting disingenuous BS.

maxdancona wrote:

and not helpful.

I am not sure how to gauge helpfulness. However, I think it is at least somewhat helpful that dishonorable posts are called out.

Why should such lies go unchallenged?

maxdancona wrote:

Please stop.

I am not inclined to stop speaking out in favor of truth and justice. Doing so is a natural part of being one of the good guys.

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@Mame,

Are you claiming you are not hostile to dissenting ideas, Mame?

Maybe you actually appreciate the opinions I express here, and the hostility I feel in your posts is imagined. Please tell me if this is the case.

Many of your posts sure feel hostile.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Of course I'm not hostile to dissenting ideas! What a thought. In my own family there could be 5 0r 6 dissenting opinions - the more the merrier. Some we attribute to mental instability, some to stunted mental growth, some to.. well, you name it. It's a part of family life! All welcome who enter here Smile

I am not hostile to YOU, per se... only your perceived ideal of yourself. Figure that one out.

You still have not given me an example.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

Quote:

I went back and checked. There is no place on this thread, nor on any other thread where I have said that Joe Biden is extreme.

1. But, you did assert that your thesis on this thread is that the US has split into two extremes.

2. You did assert that neither the left or the right is able to see outside of a narrow ideology or consider facts that question their own narrative.

3. Although you may not have mention Biden by name, Biden is part of the left.

4. I am also part of the left.

Quote:

For the record, I pretty much agree with you about Trump up until the last paragraph. I don't see how that is at all relevant to the thread. I am not the person making an "equivalency" between Biden and Trump.

1. Since Biden is part of the left, that makes it relevant.

2. Since Trump is part of the right, that makes it relevant.

1 Reply

@Real Music,

I see your point, RealMusic.

Biden is in tough spot. You are right that Biden is not naturally on the extreme. He has never been far left. However, he is being shoved hard by the political left wing of his party.

The fracturing of the Democratic party is hurting Biden's agenda.

Incidentally, I don't think Trump is naturally extreme either. Trump is an opportunist. He fellated the right wing, not because he really cared, but because he wanted power and the right wing was the way he could get it.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

Biden is in tough spot. You are right that Biden is not naturally on the extreme.

1. Why are you saying that I am right for something I didn't say?

2. I didn't say that Biden was extreme.

3. I didn't say that Biden wasn't extreme.

4. I didn't use the word "extreme" in a negative way.

5. I didn't use the word "extreme" in a positive way.

6. I actually didn't use the word "extreme" at all.

6. You are the one who is labelling people on the left and people on the right as extreme.

7. You are the one who is asserting that the US has split into two extremes.

8. You are the one who is asserting that Neither the left or the right is able to see outside of a narrow ideology or consider facts that question their own narrative.

9. I said that Biden is part of the left.

10. I also said that I am part of the left.

Quote:

Incidentally, I don't think Trump is naturally extreme either. Trump is an opportunist. He fellated the right wing, not because he really cared, but because he wanted power and the right wing was the way he could get it.

1. I agree that Trump is an opportunist.

2. I also believe that Trump only cares about Trump.

3. I also believe that Trump is part of the right wing.

4. I also believe that the Trumpism and the right wing are now synonymous.

2 Replies

@Real Music,

Ok.

0 Replies

@Real Music,

Real Music wrote:

1. I agree that Trump is an opportunist.

As do I.

Quote:

2. I also believe that Trump only cares about Trump.

Trump give very little indication that he cares about anything but himself...in any meaningful way.

Quote:

3. I also believe that Trump is part of the right wing.

Trump seems to have the American Right totally under his control. He calls the tune...they dance to it. It appears most politicians on the Right feel there is no way they can win without the tacit endorsement of Trump right now.

I AGREE WITH THEM.

Quote:

4. I also believe that the Trumpism and the right wing are now synonymous.

The Republican Party, where most of the American Right resides, has built a Frankenstein Monster in Trump...and now are totally under his control.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

The Republican Party, where most of the American Right resides, has built a Frankenstein Monster in Trump...and now are totally under his control.

On Extremism: What it is and how to stand up to it.

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