Is Utopianism Actually a Bad Thing?

Frank Apisa
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2021 04:56 am
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

What the hell makes you think that if one is "truly agnostic"...the person is indifferent?

Agnosticism is the position that "I don't know enough to be sure." Because of this, the natural logical extension of this mindset is (a) "I'm searching for the answers until know" which is not you, or (b) "I honestly don't care enough to involve myself in such discussion."

You are pathetic at logic and reasoning. You ought not to try doing it so often.

Such people aren't in religion forums.

For the most part, I stay away from "religious forums. People who want to be "religious" are welcome to indulge themselves as much as possible...and I leave it at that.


If they are, they are typically searching for answers. You clearly don't fit into any of these mentalities. You're clearly an anti-theist who is crossdressing (I don't mean literally, in philosophy and debate, this is slang for posing as one position when you are actually another) as agnostic.

You are absolutely miserable at logic and reasoning. You ought not to indulge in it so often...as you may damage what little brain you have.

You are also confusing the position of agnosticism ("I can't know whether or not") with the idea that nobody else is able to know anything. This is a a position of skepticism, the idea that knowledge is impossible.

I am doing no such thing.

On the question of whether gods exist or not, I have said quite clearly:

I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.

(When I use the word "GOD or gods" here, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST.)

I am a NON-THEIST...not an anti-theist.

It certainly is my opinion that you DO NOT KNOW that any gods exists...just as the people who assert "there are no gods" DO NOT KNOW that no gods exist.

You blindly guess either way...and then go on and on and on with your bullshit. I argue against your bullshit. That seems to bother you.


Okay, let us suppose no knowledge is possible.

Why would I possibly do something as stupid as that? If you want to do stupid things...do them. Include me out!

While I am a partial skeptic (I generally distrust written sources, because I happen to know from research papers how easy it is to fudge sources), I do believe in personal experience. Suppose you said to me, "There is no evidence that love exists!" And suppose I meet someone. Suppose I royally screw things up. Suppose, I am broke, out of work, and really miserable. And you tell me, "See? You can't prove love! You're just blind guessing." Bullshit! I can absolutely prove that I am pining over her, that I was in fact in love. You are just looking in the wrong place.

You are pathetic at logic and reasoning. You are even more pathetic at reasonable hypothetical. Don't do it.

So basically you don't think I know my own mind and heart well enough to know what I know and believe. Not only is this insulting and a bit abusive, but it comes across as ignorant. While, yes, I cannot prove my own beliefs are true to you (we cannot be sure our experiences are universal), I can most definitely be sure of my own mind.

You are blindly guessing there is a god...and that you know what pleases and offends it...and you do not have the ethical wherewithal to acknowledge that blind guess.

Okay. Takes all kinds.

You are not agnostic. You are an anti-theist and clearly posing in an attempt to gaslight people on this forum.

You are full of ****. That is your right. And you do it so well.



Recognize gaslighting as abuse. Today is National Gaslighting Awareness Day. Is it, really? No, you're just imagining things, dear.

You also do not know how to quote properly...or how to post an image so that it fits on the page properly. Grow up...learn a few things. THEN TEACH OTHERS.
  Selected Answer
Reply Tue 2 Nov, 2021 05:23 am
@Frank Apisa,
Bulma proposed:
Okay, let us suppose no knowledge is possible.

Frank replied:
Why would I possibly do something as stupid as that? If you want to do stupid things...do them. Include me out!

Because you have said so Frank.

When you tell others that it is not possible for anyone to have that knowledge, you are either gaslighting or declaring yourself the only one who possibly could, all the while hiding behind the facade of agnosticism.

When you say 'I don’t know, and neither do you', you have included us. Why should we not include you?

But I agree with your conclusion that it would be incredibly stupid to assume that such knowledge is not possible.

Just trying to keep it real.

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