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Putting Covid in Perspective (for God's sake stop panicking)

 
 
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 09:27 am
This is a fact-based thread. Covid is a global pandemic caused by a respiratory virus. It has killed over 700,000 in the US and over 4 million world wide. The vaccines are safe and effective. Masks and social distancing are effective ways to reduce transmission.

If you dont accept the facts (or cant for the purpose of this discussion) than this thread is not intended for you.

That being said The Covid Pandemic is not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

People are supporting draconian measures without any consideration of the consequences. There is angry shouting and attempts to shut down restaurants who dont comply. There are exagerated comparisons to war.

Let's put covid in perpective.

- It is a deadly disease and a serious public health crisis.

- It is not the biggest crisis the US has faced (not even close)

- It is not the leading cause of death (it is #3 behind heart disease and cancer)
 
Frank Apisa
 
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Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 09:43 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:


This is a fact-based thread. Covid is a global pandemic caused by a respiratory virus. It has killed over 700,000 in the US and over 4 million world wide. The vaccines are safe and effective. Masks and social distancing are effective ways to reduce transmission.

If you dont accept the facts (or cant for the purpose of this discussion) than this thread is not intended for you.

That being said The Covid Pandemic is not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

People are supporting draconian measures without any consideration of the consequences. There is angry shouting and attempts to shut down restaurants who dont comply. There are exagerated comparisons to war.

Let's put covid in perpective.

- It is a deadly disease and a serious public health crisis.

- It is not the biggest crisis the US has faced (not even close)

- It is not the leading cause of death (it is #3 behind heart disease and cancer)


Policemen and policewomen are among the most healthy people in the country.

The number 1 cause of death among police during the last year...is COVID.

The disease MAY be less dangerous than many are making it out to be...but it is a hell of a lot more a problem than YOU are making it out to be, Max.

Yeah...you enjoy being a professional contrarian, but you really ought to get over the stuff you are peddling regarding this particular.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 09:59 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
The Covid Pandemic is not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

The effect of the pandemic on the world economy is unprecedented. Time to crawl out of your bunker and look around.

Quote:
The COVID-19 viral pandemic is an unprecedented global phenomenon that is also a highly personal experience with wide-ranging effects. On September 20, 2021, U.S. viral deaths surpassed the 675,446 total from the 1918 Spanish flu, the previous worst U.S. pandemic-related
death total on record. The pandemic has disrupted lives across all countries and communities and negatively affected global economic growth in 2020 beyond anything experienced in nearly a century. Estimates indicate the virus reduced global economic growth in 2020 to an annualized rate of around -3.2%, with a recovery of 6.0% projected for 2021. Global trade is estimated to have fallen by 5.3% in 2020, but is projected to grow by 8.0% in 2021. According to a consensus of forecasts, the economic downturn in 2020 was not as negative as initially estimated, due in part to the fiscal and monetary policies governments adopted in 2020. In most countries, economic growth fell sharply in the second quarter of 2020, rebounded quickly in the third quarter, and has been mostly positive since. Although lessening, the total global economic effects continue to mount. In particular, the prolonged nature of the health crisis is affecting the global
economy beyond traditional measures with potentially long-lasting and far-reaching repercussions. Economic forecasts reflect continuing risks to a sustained global recovery posed by a resurgence of infectious cases and potential inflationary pressures associated with pent-up consumer demand fueled by an increase in personal savings. On the supply side, shortages reflect lingering disruptions to labor markets, production and supply chain bottlenecks, disruptions in global energy markets, and shipping and transportation constraints that are adding to inflationary pressures.

(...)

The human costs in terms of lives lost will permanently affect global economic growth in addition to the cost of elevated levels of poverty, lives upended, careers derailed, and increased social unrest. Some estimates indicate that 95 million people may have entered into extreme poverty in 2020 with 80 million more undernourished compared to pre -pandemic levels . In addition, some estimates indicate that the decline in global trade in 2020 exacted an especially heavy economic toll on trade-dependent developing and emerging economies. This report provides an overview of the global economic costs to date and the response by governments and international institutions to address these effects.

congressionalresearchservice
maxdancona
 
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Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 10:01 am
@Frank Apisa,
That's an interesting headline Frank. Apparently some political pr person came up with fact and spread it around the news media.

No one is telling the actual story.


Is this because more police officers are getting covid then the general public, or because fewer police officers are dying of heart disease?

I hate this about journalists, they go for the sensational headline without telling the actual story.

Do you know the answer to this question, Frank?
maxdancona
 
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Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 10:05 am
@hightor,
Quote:
The effect of the pandemic on the world economy is unprecedented.


Nonsense Hightor. Through two world wars, a cold war, smallpox and Spanish flu. The rise of terrorism Al qaeda and Isis. Several refugee crisis. The Chinese Cultural revolution, and several serious famines and a couple global economic collapse. And of course, lets not forget climate change.

As far as economic impact, I am not sure covid makes the top ten.

Hightor, you cant have everything be the absolute worst crisis in history.


hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 10:51 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Hightor, you cant have everything be the absolute worst crisis in history.

I did not say that it was the absolute worst crisis in history.

I said it was unprecedented. The current world economy has evolved significantly since WWII (which is probably my candidate for being the most serious crisis the civilized world has gone through.) We didn't have the global supply chain in place and we only had two billion people on the planet; these are two factors which have made the current pandemic particularly damaging to our economy and to our society in unprecedented ways.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 11:03 am
@hightor,
I am old enough now to have lived through a few of these world changing events. The reality is never anywhere near as bad as the propheicies of doom.

9/11 hit me particularly hard in the economic sense. The bottom dropped out of the employment market in my field, and I spent almost 2 desperate years of unemployment. I had the horrible experience of being rejected for retail work because they could tell I was an unemployed engineer even after I doctored my resume.

The prophets of doom at the time were saying nothing would ever be the same. And then the jobs came back, and after a little while things were fine.

The prophets of doom are here again... or maybe they wwere always here just waiting for the next crisis.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 11:21 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
And then the jobs came back, and after a little while things were fine.

And then we had the worldwide Great Recession.
Quote:
The prophets of doom are here again... or maybe they wwere always here just waiting for the next crisis.

I don't think anyone's predicting "doom" concerning the pandemic. Shortages of consumer goods, work disruptions, and heightened social tensions don't indicate impending "doom".
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 11:24 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

I don't think anyone's predicting "doom" concerning the pandemic. Shortages of consumer goods, work disruptions, and heightened social tensions don't indicate impending "doom".


Thank you for clarifying that.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 01:35 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

That's an interesting headline Frank. Apparently some political pr person came up with fact and spread it around the news media.

No one is telling the actual story.


Is this because more police officers are getting covid then the general public, or because fewer police officers are dying of heart disease?

I hate this about journalists, they go for the sensational headline without telling the actual story.

Do you know the answer to this question, Frank?




I do not know, Max...but so what!

The fact is that the leading cause of death in policemen and policewomen...IS COVID.

Okay, one can honestly say the Covid pandemic is not the most horrible thing ever to happen on planet Earth...but what in hell is your point.

And why in hell are you trying to make it?
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 03:43 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I looked it up. The following three things are all true.

1) The biggest cause of death in police officers is covid.
2) Police officers are significantly less likely to die of covid than the population in general.
3) The biggest cause of death in cats is feline leukemia.

It is a fact that covid is the biggest cause of death in police. It is also a fact that the death rate from covid is about 12 per 10,000 officers (compared to 22 deaths per 10,000 people in the general population)

Whether any of these facts causes you to experience outrage or panic is up to you.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  5  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 09:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
we stand at an intresting cornr of civilization. We are at a point hre we can actually control much of our environmental inputs and yet we still maintain an almost Stone Age mentality towards medical and biological exeprtise. ( I considr my john deere Tractor Mechanic a genius in his fild and I do whatever h says because he knows more about my tractors and when theyre needed and what will wait another cutting or not-Yt he thinks medicine , and all this scaring people--is just a scam)

epidemiologists have pretty much been able to have people understand what "Herd Immunity" means, yet many many people, (IMHO politically driven) wont lift a fingr in the march to achieve it.
I actully am fearful that, until w can slow or eradicate the virus, e will see more mutations gone wild, will see LGT cause mutations from other SARs strains and diseases may be abl to link to make a "Suprbug cluster" that could create non- apoptatic strains of viral syndemic - diseases that may show us all how close to extinction we can come.

we act like we know so much yet this pandemic is showing us how much we still must learn.

we aint done with this bug no matter what max is trying to preach.

if everybody were magically vaccinated tomorrow so that the only zoonotic storage bins remaining were livestock and pets, wed still be in a mess sweeping up the mutant strains that pop up and hoping that we dont have to make another "Operation Warp Speed"(you realize that, w test th **** out of xisting vaccins to see whether the new variants are immune to the Moderna or Pfizer, or Sinovax, or "Sputnik Tsemlee"--or whethr those vaccines still even work)

This thing has got billions of people in some real close quarters creating the world's largest Petri Dish. W need to think o this as a full-on war and stop acting like Trumps early pronouncements about how "in some warm spring dayCovid would magically be gone"
OBVIOUSLY HE WAS FULLA **** WASNT HE . I hope we choose to keep reading Epidemiology Journals and other stuff so we can factually can tell you, that the pros in this field , arrent panicking anymore than a pilot with a flame out in his 737 is panicking, were all passengers here, The bestsource in which you could learn about zoonotic diseses is the popular book by David Quammen written about 6 yars before 2019m but he wisely predicted stuff like this could rise episodically and wipe out large chunks of the urban world.

"Spanish Flu" has been stuudied from samples of recent minor occurences compared to samples taken from xhumed victim tissues from 1918 through 1924 and these were unremarkably the same. Covid 19 however has gone through 5 mutation sequences ( mutations have variants) sort of "subspecies"


Yet weve got un vaccinated profesionals who should know better but, for several reasons, rfuse to do anything to protct themselves or to assist in taking part helping our species hit herd immunity.
And here w are actually debating whether this disease is a very serious problem that could potentially be disastrous. All e have to do is follow a calwndar an disease reports that occur fter events, I know a husban and wif who drov their Hrlys out to Sturgis . They both cam down with covid and the husband, in his 50;s died. He pooh poohed it too. We talked last pring and he told me they were gonna do Sturgis cause it wasnt really serious anymore, I said I dont agree and hes merely gonna be playing Russian Roulette , not everybody dies in russian roulette but its a guarantee the all buut1 will die if they dont stop the game.

i used to bitch about Mandelbrot equations in possible crystal structure predictions and the more I bitched, the more I saw how natural selection, time effects, and dumb luck is a reality.

As Robt Raup the paleo extinction researcher always said."NATURE BATS LAST"
Frank Apisa
 
  5  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2021 03:18 am
@farmerman,
Agreed, FM.

They are nuts...and Max is helping them with his nonsense.

But...they are part of what we are...

...and "what we are" right now is pretty scary.

We have evolved technologically to the point where we can totally annihilate ourselves and our planet...

...BEFORE we have evolved philosophically to the point where we DEFINITELY WOULD NOT DO SOMETHING THAT STUPID.

Oh, well.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2021 02:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Soooooo... Frank.

You and Farmerman are "Us". I assume you include Hightor as well.

Me, Trump Supporters and Hitler are "Them".

I suppose it does simplify things to see everything as Us and Them.
Frank Apisa
 
  5  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2021 02:19 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Soooooo... Frank.

You and Farmerman are "Us". I assume you include Hightor as well.

Me, Trump Supporters and Hitler are "Them".

I suppose it does simplify things to see everything as Us and Them.


I suppose it simplifies things for you to interpret my comment to mean that I see EVERYTHING as Us and Them.

0 Replies
 
 

 
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