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How long were the Israelites in Egypt?

 
 
The Anointed
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2021 09:48 pm
@glitterbag,
Or to quote the scriptures:

He is the FIRST and the LAST
The BEGINNING and END
The ALPHA and OMEGA
The FATHER and SON.

He is ONE. He is the great SINGULARITY, who is the beginning and end of each period of universal activity.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2021 11:33 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

I do not agree that history and archaeology are myths.


The biblical account of the Exodus, where followers of Jehovah freed were freed from slavery is a myth. So was the crossing of the Red Sea and the 40 years in the desert. All myths that historians and archeologists confirm are not supported by evidence.

Sure, myths may have some truth in history. Maybe some dude named Achilles died from being shot in the heel. That doesnt mean that dipping your child in some river at the bidding of a deity will make you invulnerable to being shot.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2021 11:34 pm
@The Anointed,
Your understanding of Physics is horrible. Unlike religion, you cant just make things up in science.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 12:11 am
@maxdancona,
The fourteenth day of the first month of the Jewish year, which was the first Passover ever, was the day in which all the firstborn sons of Egypt were killed. Around that time the volcanic Island of Santorini or Thira as it is also known, which was situated in the Aegean-sea, on the Anatolian plate, which is subject to the forces of the over-riding African Plate that grinds against the Arabian plate in its Northern migration, exploded with many times the force of Krakatoa, which was a volcanic island that exploded in 1883, and that explosion was heard 5,000 kilometres away, and caused a tsunami that killed at least 36,000 people.

It has been estimated that when the island of Santorini exploded, 35,000 kilometres of material was lifted into the stratosphere, and that the explosive force would have created tidal waves of anything up to 130 ft high which would have traveled at speeds of around 150 miles per hour.

A cloud, that turned day into night around 1,500 BC, has been recorded in Chinese history, and would have covered all of north Africa. The African and Arabian plates intersect in a line that runs through the Red Sea and up the Jordan valley through the Dead Sea.

Look at the strange phenomenon that was occurring at the time of the Exodus. The cloud that blanketed north Africa and most of Europe, and turned day into a night so dark that a man was not able to recognise his own brother who was standing at arms-length from him. The rain of sulfuric acid that caused so much crop failure and the death of the livestock which were forced to feed on the polluted pastures, the following series of shock waves along the great rift valley and the fractures in the Sini peninsular which is situated on the Arabian plate, the bulging of the earth’s crust beneath the Red Sea which caused a highway to rise from the waters, with its following tremor when it collapsed and tidal waves that rolled in like two walls of water on either side of where the highway had been.

Wisdom of Solomon 19: 7-8, ‘Then was beheld the cloud that shadowed the camp, and dry land rising up out of what was before water, out of the Red sea, an unhindered highway, and a grassy plain rising out of the violent surge.”

Look even where the Israelites camped on the shore of the Red sea, which was smack bang in the middle of a major coal field in Egypt.

The bulging earth rising from the surging sea before them, pressurized gas screaming from the opening fissures creating towering pillars of fire to burn behind them, a strong east wind blew all that night causing the thick smoke to blind the pursuing Egyptians while lighting up the camp of the Israelites on the eastern side of those wild fires.

All these events were caused from pressures that had been built up over tens of thousands of years and would have occurred in their proper time, irrelevant as too the Israeli situation. Where the miracle lay, was in the fact that an unseen deity of the future, was able, through his prophet Moses, to organise the events leading up to and including the exodus itself at the precise time in history that this cataclysmic event occurred.

In the book “The Wisdom of Solomon, 16” Solomon has much to say about the days of Moses; he speaks of the strange hails that fell from heaven. Burning balls of frozen gases, some with the ability to burn even in water, some which burned with a heat so intense that they incinerated anything they came in contact with, while other hail, burned with a cold fire through which animals could walk unharmed.

Solomon also speaks of the cloud that covered the Israelites in the desert and of the Manna that fell from heaven during the night. According to Solomon, the heavenly covering was a cloud by day and a host of stars by night, (a night sky ablaze with falling balls of burning hail stones). Then concerning the heavenly Manna, he says, “And that which was not injured by fire, [Burning hailstones] simply warmed by a faint sun beam melted away.

Each morning the desert floor was covered with the residue of the melted hailstones, mounds of a flaky cellulose substance, which looked like coriander seed, and would melt and breed worms and stink if left out in the sun, and yet could be preserved when cooked, and tasted like biscuits mixed with the purest of olive oils.

Carbohydrates are any of a group of chemical compounds, including sugars, starches, and cellulose, containing carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen ‘ONLY’, [of which there was an ample supply in the cloud from the volcanic explosion] with the ratio of hydrogen to oxygen atoms usually 2 : 1. Perhaps, if our scientists could simulate the same conditions that occurred in the stratosphere when the island of Thira exploded, they may come up with an inexpensive and environmentally friendly source of food production to feed the starving millions on the earth.

The early Egyptian magicians or scientists, were able to duplicate some of the miracles of God as performed by Moses. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if our magician/scientists of today were able to perform the more mysterious of God’s miracles as seen in the days of Moses, and provide an abundant and cheap source of food to feed the ever-growing population on this earth.

As I have already said, all those things that happened in Egypt at that time, were caused from pressures that had built up over many, many, thousands of years. Where the miracle is found, is in the fact that some invisible entity from some other time dimension, was able to instigate the Exodus, at the precise time that the destructive forces beneath the island of Santorini, were beginning to awake.

Although radiocarbon dating of an olive tree im-bedded in lava would appear to indicate a 1600 BCE eruption of Santorini/Thera, that is, if the lava that it was im-bedded in was from the actual eruption that devastated the island and its surrounding districts and not from an earlier minor lava flow. There are many archaeologists who still believe that the date is contradicted by findings in Egyptian and Theran excavations.

Buried Egyptian and Cypriot pottery found on Thera were dated to a later period than the radiometric dates for the eruption, and, since the conventional Egyptian chronology has been established by numerous archaeological studies, the exact date of the eruption remains controversial.

Because of all the contradicting evidence, the exact date of the eruption has been difficult to determine. For most of the twentieth century, archaeologists placed it at approximately 1500 BCE, but this date appeared to be too young as radiocarbon dating analysis of that olive tree which was buried beneath “A” lava flow from the volcano on Santorini, indicate that the particular lava flow in which the olive tree was im-bedded, occurred between 1627 BCE and 1600 BCE.

But at Tell el Dab'a in Egypt, pumice found at this location has been dated to 1540 BCE, closer to the traditionally accepted date of Thera's eruption. This matches the composition of the Thera eruption.

Apopis, is said to have been a Hyksos king of ancient Egypt and reigned c 1585-42 B.C., and Apopis was the Last of the Shepherd Kings?
maxdancona
 
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Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 09:59 am
@The Anointed,
You can either believe in science, or in a literal interpretation of the bible.

You can't do both. I see that you put the Bible first above all else. I accept that. But if you are claiming that this matches with science, you are deceiving yourself.
oralloy
 
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Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 01:45 pm
@maxdancona,
If you think that science contradicts what he said, how about explaining the alleged contradiction?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 01:48 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
The biblical account of the Exodus, where followers of Jehovah freed were freed from slavery is a myth. So was the crossing of the Red Sea and the 40 years in the desert. All myths that historians and archeologists confirm are not supported by evidence.

There is no concrete archaeological evidence supporting them. But neither is there any concrete archaeological evidence contradicting them.

It is plausible that a substantial body of former Hyksos entered the land of Canaan and are ancestral to the Israelites who formed kingdoms a few centuries later, and this is the source of the Exodus tales.

Since there is no proof, it is wrong to claim that it is definitively true.

But since it is possible, it is also wrong to claim that it is definitively false.


maxdancona wrote:
Sure, myths may have some truth in history. Maybe some dude named Achilles died from being shot in the heel. That doesnt mean that dipping your child in some river at the bidding of a deity will make you invulnerable to being shot.

Historians filter the truth out of mythical claims all the time. That’s part of their job.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 03:53 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

If you think that science contradicts what he said, how about explaining the alleged contradiction?


He is claiming that volcanic ash is edible.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 04:04 pm
@maxdancona,
I’m no expert but I agree that that sounds unlikely.

But I think the Hyksos hypothesis is interesting. We’ll probably never know for sure, but it is interesting speculation.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 04:23 pm
@maxdancona,
But I do believe both. I believe that history and science support the biblical story of the so called miraculous events that occurred at the time of the Exodus, which the bible puts in or about 15 67-40.

Although radiocarbon dating of "AN" olive tree im-bedded in "A" lava would appear to indicate a 1600 BCE eruption of Santorini/Thera, that is, if the lava that it was im-bedded in was from the actual eruption that devastated the island and its surrounding districts and not from an earlier minor lava flow. There are many archaeologists who still believe that the date is contradicted by findings in Egyptian and Theran excavations.

Buried Egyptian and Cypriot pottery found on Thera were dated to a later period than the radiometric dates of ‘AN’ olive tree imbedded in “A” Lava flow, and, since the conventional Egyptian chronology has been established by numerous archaeological studies, the exact date of the eruption remains controversial.

A cloud, that turned day into night around 1,500 BC, has been recorded in Chinese history, and at Tell el Dab'a in Egypt, pumice found at this location has been dated to 1540 BCE, this pumice matches the composition of the Thera eruption.

Apopis, is said to have been a Hyksos king of ancient Egypt and reigned c 1585-42 B.C., and Apopis was the Last of the Shepherd Kings?

Can you prove that the reign of Apopis, who is said to have been the last of the Hyksos Kings did not end in or around 1542 B.C.?

Can you prove that the Chinese historical account of a cloud around 1500 B,C., that turned day into night, is incorrect?

Can you prove that the numerous archaeological studies in that area are incorrect?

Can you prove that the pumice found a Tell el Dab'a, which matches the composition of the Thera eruption, was supposedly erroneously dated to 1540 B.C.E.?

And there you go, twisting and distorting my words, by stating that I said volcano ash was editable, which proves to all that you are incapable of comprehending that which your read.

Here is what I said in the post you refer to: Each morning the desert floor was covered with the residue of the melted hailstones, mounds of a flaky cellulose substance, which looked like coriander seed, and would melt and breed worms and stink if left out in the sun, and yet could be preserved when cooked, and tasted like biscuits mixed with the purest of olive oils.

Carbohydrates are any of a group of chemical compounds, including sugars, starches, and cellulose, containing carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen ‘ONLY’, [of which there was an ample supply in the cloud from the volcanic explosion] with the ratio of hydrogen to oxygen atoms usually 2 : 1.

Perhaps, if our scientists could simulate the same conditions that occurred in the stratosphere when the island of Thira exploded, they may come up with an inexpensive and environmentally friendly source of food production to feed the starving millions on the earth.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 06:36 pm
@The Anointed,
In science, any theory can be proven wrong. A scientist will explain for any theory that if this result happens or if this data is measured, then he will admit that the theory is incorrect.

Is there any evidence that could possibly convince you that the Biblical account of Exodus is incorrect?

oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 06:44 pm
@maxdancona,
I’m unclear how you are defining correct and incorrect.

If (hypothetically, for the sake of argument) 90% of it is correct but 10% is wrong, how do you count that?
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 07:36 pm
@maxdancona,
You ask; "Is there any evidence that could possibly convince me that the Biblical account of Exodus is incorrect?"

Not really, I very much doubt that anyone could ever come up with any evidence to prove that the Biblical account of Exodus is incorrect?"

Is there any other way that we can date the Exodus of the Israelite shepherds? There certainly is.

1 Kings 6: 1; States that it was 480 years after the exodus, that Solomon began to build the temple, which took seven years to complete. According to Josephus the Jewish historian, the temple stood for four hundred and seventy years six months and ten days before it was sacked and burned by Nebuchadnezzar’s forces in 587 B.C.

587 B.C., + the four hundred and seventy years six months and ten days, rounded off to four hundred and seventy and one years that the Temple stood + the seven years it took to build, after the 480 years since the Exodus and we have 587 B.C., + 471 years = 1058 B.C., + 7 years = 1065 B.C., + 480 years = 1545 B.C. (1545)

Apopis, is said to have been a Hyksos king of ancient Egypt and reigned c 1585-42 B.C., and Apopis was the Last of the Shepherd Kings? (1542)

1542-1545, pretty close don't you reckon?

We could also expect to find evidence of the biblical fact that Jericho was destroyed 40 years after the exodus as revealed in the scriptures, and we do.

Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

The radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%, confirm that the biblical date for the destruction, closely agrees with Kathleen Kenyon’s findings.

Pretty close hey? But because Kathleen Kenyon's date was only 95% certain, I believe that her bottom line could be stretched a little further to 1505 B.C., 1545-40=1505.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 08:00 pm
@oralloy,
I feel like I am being clear. Let's take a Physics theory; Newton's second law for example. It says that any unbalanced net force will cause an acceleration inversely proportional to its mass.

If you find a single case where this didn't happen, you would dosprove the theory.

If 10% of the time an unbalanced force was found to not cause an acceleration that would mean the theory was quite incorrect.

There is an additional problem the inspired Word of God being wrong 10% of the time.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 09:11 pm
@maxdancona,
No problem there mate. We realise that the Hebrew bible has been retranslated time after time into many languages, and that errors have crept in, which errors were compounded with each following translation. But in the main, these apparent errors can be reconciled.

Acts 9: 7; "The men who were travelling with Saul had stopped, not saying a word; they "HEARD" the voice but could not see anyone."

Acts 22: 9; " The men with me saw the light, but did "NOT HEAR" the voice of the one who was speaking to me.

Would you condemn these two statements as contradicting each other, or as a believer would you first attempt to reconcile this apparent contradiction?

The Hebrew bible and the Roman OT, both only mention the father of Shelah two times: one in Genesis 11: 12; where is is said that Arpachshad was the father of Shelah, and in 1 Chronicles 1: 18; where again it is said that Arpachshad was the father of Shelah, while Luke 3: 35-36; states that Shelah is the son of Cainan/Kainam. Can you reconcile from the scriptures, these two apparent contradictions?

1 Chronicles 2: 13; States that Jesse had seven sons, David being the youngest of the seven, While 1 Samuel 17: 12; states that Jesse had eight sons, can you scripturally reconcile these two apparent contradictions?

We can go on and on, all these apparent contradictions can be reconciled by anyone who cares to study the scriptures rather than just search for apparent contradictions in their attempts to denigrate the holy books.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 09:33 pm
@The Anointed,
You are looking for an argument where there is no argument. If you "study the bible" you can reconcile all of the contradictions. What you are doing is starting with the assumption that the Bible is true, and then explaining away any contradictions based on this assumption.

The main disagreement I have with you are your claims about science. Science doesn't work the same way as religion.

In religion you start with a belief, and then you search for evidence that your belief is true.

In science you start with facts and use them to develop a belief. Then you search for evidence that your belief is not true.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 10:20 pm
@maxdancona,
Rubbish! After listening to the rot as taught be the preachers of my parents church, I went to the Bible to prove that It was wrong, only to find it was right and the preachers were wrong.

Nor do I attempt explain away any apparent contradictions, I search for the truth which will reconcile those apparent contradictions.

Acts 9: 3-8; “The men who were travelling with Paul “HEARD”= “akouo” the voice but did not see any person."

The Greek "akouo" is here translated as "Heard."

We now find that the same Greek term is used in Acts 22: 9; where Paul says that the men with him saw the light (which was the presence of the glorified body of Jesus of Nazareth) but they did not “HEAR” = ”akouo,” the voice of the one who was speaking to me.

These two verses explaining the one event would appear to contradict one another, this is because Acts 22: 9; is an erroneous interpretation.

The Greek term “akouo” can mean, [To hear what has been said, or to understand that which was said.]

When we look to 1st Corinthians 14: 2; we find there, that it is written, "The one who speaks in strange tongues does not speak to others but to God, because no one, “akouo” = “UNDERSTANDS” him." The Greek "akouo" is here translated as "Understand" and so Acts 9:7; reveals that the men who were with Paul "HEARD" the voice, while Acts 22: 9; reveals that they did "HEAR" the voice, but did not understand what the voice they heard was saying.

So we now know that the men who were with Saul, saw no man, nor did Saul, but He and his travelling companions did see the light, and all heard the voice, but only Saul, who was temporally blinded by the Light that flashed before his face, was able to understand the voice which said, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" to which Saul responded, "Who are you Lord?" to then hear and understand the answer, "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute."

Scientists start with a few facts from which they develop a belief, then continue to search for more evidence to support their belief, only to find the evidence that proves their belief system to be erroneous.

And I suppose that if some day evidence proves my belief to be erroneous, I will be man enough to admit that I was wrong.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 11:17 pm
@The Anointed,
Quote:
Scientists start with a few facts from which they develop a belief, then continue to search for more evidence to support their belief, only to find the evidence that proves their belief system to be erroneous.


Yes exactly. This is the difference between science and religion. Science can be found to be erroneous. Religion can't.

I am glad you see my point.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2021 12:46 am
@maxdancona,
Wake up to yourself kiddo, if you think that the religions practised by the
majority today can't be wrong, then it becomes obvious that you have never studied the scriptures.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2021 06:51 am
@The Anointed,
You are wrong about that. I have studied the scriptures. In my twenties I nwas a devoted bible believing christian who wanted to enter the ministry. I have done years of personal daily Bible study, along with group Bible study (which I both participated in an led). I also have had formal bible training in a classroom setting.

It no longer matters. I had the dream of becomou a teacher and also studied science. I spent a few years where I tried to balance between the two worlds of Bible based Christian and Science. I found it cant be done... the mental twists you have to do get more and more rodiculous.

0 Replies
 
 

 
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