Vaccine denial: Why people don't want to take off their masks

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Nonsense, and even if that were true, which it isn’t, it still doesn’t mean you can tell everyone else what to do.

Where is anyone telling anyone else what to do? We are not suggesting that you do not follow your own country's guidelines. We were simply stating that this is the CDC guidelines which have been working for the most part pretty well.

Each country (and even within the US each state - the state I reside in for instance was terrible at first for the vaccines but now is either the highest or one of the highest) needs to decide which works best for their particular situation and culture. I have read from some for instance that they have complete lockdowns if there is as much as a handful of covid cases. It would not work in the US, however, it could be completely acceptable and the right for another country. I cannot speak for them nor would not.

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@maxdancona,

I still wear my mask when I go out of my home. Our state is relatively low in infections and deaths from the virus. It is still possible for the vaccinated to pass on the virus from a asymptomatic carrier to somebody who is not vaccinated. I had the virus in March 2020 and it lasted only a few days for me, but I was careful not to pass it on to other people.

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@seac,

The latest science says the risk for a fully vaccinated person to pass on the virus to an unvaccinated person is extremely low (at least for Pfizer and Moderna).

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@maxdancona,

We still have to use common sense in sorting out what we are being told. If a vaccinated person was in a room with infected people, the virus will get on their clothes and skin and even in their mouth and throat. Then this person will go elsewhere and contact others and spread it by breathing or talking to them in an environment that may be conducive to the virus, like an closed room. The unvaccinated and the weak will most likely catch it. Most infected people will not die, but it will be a sorry thing for those who do.

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@seac,

It’s important to recognise the impact on society in the broader sense. Those who are not vaccinated still need to wear masks, and a two tier system where some people have to wear masks and others don’t is asking for trouble.

What about those poor sods whose job it is to enforce mask wearing, are they now supposed to check vaccine records?

Not wearing a mask in the middle of a pandemic is an act of gross selfishness regardless of whether or not one has been vaccinated.

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@seac,

When your common sense tells you one thing, and science tells you another always go with the science.

Your imagination has come up with a scenario that you think might be true. Except it isn't. In science, we run experiments to see what actually happens rather than just making guesses.

The science says that the virus is not passed by clothes and skin... wait a second, that doesn't even make common sense. How would a mask protect your clothes and skin?

Anyway, when scientists actually measure the transmission of the virus they are finding that vaccinated people don't spread covid. Calling people "selfish" for going with the science during a pandemic is a little assinine (as long as Izzy and I are trading childish insults),.

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I think what is going to happen is that mask or no-mask will be determined by location.

When I play poker, everyone there is there by choice. Anyone can look in the front door and see that everyone is packed together, passing chips around and having good time without wearing masks. If you go decide to enter you accept the risk (which is insignficant if you are a fully vaccinated person who believes in science).

When I am in a store and everyone is wearing masks, I will follow suit. I am not a total asshole.

I suppose we are all going to have to figure out the social part of the end of the pandemic. I suspect that Izzy is going to be more cranky than usual over the next several months.

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@maxdancona,

Evidence grows stronger for Covid vaccine link to heart issue, CDC says

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/evidence-grows-stronger-covid-vaccine-link-heart-issue-cdc-says-n1270339

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@BennytheJet,

Benny, why are you spamming my thread? That has nothing to do with the topic of masks.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

why are you spamming my thread?

Wow, that's a stretch. The title of this thread is literally "Vaccine denial: Why people don't want to take off their masks"

It seems that you're whole point is that people who don't want the vaccine are being irrational.

So you think that heart complications are an irrational fear?

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@maxdancona,

If the vaccine is so safe, why would the government and certain companies have to threaten and bribe people to get them to take it?

If there's no reason for alarm, why wouldn't people want to take it of their own accord?

Don't you think that it's cultish behavior to have an attitude that no one ought to question this experimental vaccine that we have no historical data about? Another prominent doctor who talked about complications had his social media shut down just yesterday.

I think these are all reasonable concerns.

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@BennytheJet,

It is pretty simple.The smart people have already had the vaccine on their own. We have to bribe the idiots.

Let me ask you the question Benny, what evidence would it take to get you to change your mind about the vaccine? (I can answer this question in a way that is logically consistent)

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@BennytheJet,

There is idiocy on both sides.

1. Some people are refusing the vaccine. They are denying the safety or effectiveness of the vaccine. Some are even denying the danger of the pandemic or the existence of the virus.

2. On the other side people are refusing to accept that the pandemic is endong. They are denying that the virus is effective enough to allow a safe return to social activities and exaggerating the danger of virus and mutations.

The same denial of science exists on both sides.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

We have to bribe the idiots.

Would you call the multitude of doctors and others with PHDs who have raised concerns about the vaccine "idiots"?

Quote:

Benny, what evidence would it take to get you to change your mind about the vaccine?

At this point nothing. It was rushed out too quickly, and there simply isn't enough evidence that it isn't potentially dangerous.

It also makes no sense that this is being forced on people who have already had covid and recovered. That goes against everything we know about how viruses like this work. When you've recovered from something like this after having it, your body develops natural immunities. Immunities much stronger than those that would develop by way of a vaccine.

If you're one of those cultists who think that no one should be allowed to question the vaccine, then you're going in direct opposition to basic rules of science.

Scientific theory is about ALWAYS questioning and revising a given situation based on the available evidence.

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@BennytheJet,

BennytheJet wrote:

Would you call the multitude of doctors and others with PHDs who have raised concerns about the vaccine "idiots"?

They are hardly a multitude, but yes. I would indeed so characterize them. They are idiots.

BennytheJet wrote:

At this point nothing. It was rushed out too quickly, and there simply isn't enough evidence that it isn't potentially dangerous.

That is incorrect. All the vaccines on the market have been fully tested as safe before being released to the market.

BennytheJet wrote:

It also makes no sense that this is being forced on people who have already had covid and recovered.

I haven't heard about this. Do you have a cite?

BennytheJet wrote:

If you're one of those cultists who think that no one should be allowed to question the vaccine, then you're going in direct opposition to basic rules of science.

Go ahead and ask questions. But don't be afraid to accept the answers.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

All the vaccines on the market have been fully tested as safe before being released to the market.

And do you trust the government and the agencies vouching for the safeness of these vaccines?

At given points in history the government, media, FDA, etc told people that cigarettes, asbestos, and any number of things were safe that we now know aren't.

After this past year and a half, do you really trust anything that the government says?

Quote:

I haven't heard about this. Do you have a cite?

My job has said they will be requiring vaccinations for all employees, including those who have had covid by the fall. I am currently looking for a different employer because of this.

Also there's this:

117 employees sue Houston Methodist hospital for requiring COVID-19 vaccine

https://abcnews.go.com/US/117-employees-sue-houston-methodist-hospital-requiring-covid/story?id=77977011

Off the top of my head I also remember Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin being attacked for refusing to get the vaccine because he already had the disease. And now senator Johnson has been banned from YouTube and other platforms for talking about this.

Quote:

Go ahead and ask questions. But don't be afraid to accept the answers.

But who is providing answers? No one. All that's happening, is that everyone who is asking questions or bringing up concerns is being silenced and banned from social media.

If there's nothing to worry about and nothing to hide, why are people being silenced for asking questions?

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@BennytheJet,

BennytheJet wrote:

And do you trust the government and the agencies vouching for the safeness of these vaccines?

Yes.

BennytheJet wrote:

My job has said they will be requiring vaccinations for all employees, including those who have had covid by the fall.

Hmmm. I'm not sure why they would require the vaccine if someone already had the illness.

On the other hand I can't see any harm in it either.

BennytheJet wrote:

But who is providing answers? No one. All that's happening, is that everyone who is asking questions or bringing up concerns is being silenced and banned from social media.

The CDC would be a good source of answers. Although I'm not sure if they have a dedicated question and answer page set up.

BennytheJet wrote:

If there's nothing to worry about and nothing to hide, why are people being silenced for asking questions?

The banning and silencing is unacceptable. Companies like Twitter and Facebook need to be broken up.

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@BennytheJet,

Benny and Izzy are doing the same thing. They are starting with an emotional set of beliefs that they won't change no matter what the evidence is. Then they look for thngs to support their pre-existing beliefs while rejecting everything that opposes it.

I trust science. I especially trust double blind studies because I know how they work. You take a large number of people, you give a portion of them the vaccine, and another part of them a placebo. This allows you to measure both effectiveness (how many people in each group get covid) and side effects (you meansure how many people in each group get magnetized).

Science answers question with scientific studies. The scientific studies have been done.

You don't answer science questions from random PhDs and doctors on the internet, on individual news stories taken out of context or morning shows in a language you don't understand.

Being open minded means being able to answer the question "What evidence will change my mind? _____'. Certainly if the scientific establistment finds that the vaccine has problems in efficiency or side effects, I will change my mind. If a reputable news organization (not a political group or fringe group) reports corruption, I will also change my mind.

Neither of these things have happened, but if they did, I would change my opinion of the vaccine.

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@maxdancona,

Being scientific means two things; asking questions and accepting the scientific answers. Both of these parts are important.

We wanted to know if the covid vaccines are safe and effective. That is the question. So we run large scale, well-designed, double blind studies. That is the answer. Obviously, the scientific community is still gathering more data as they should. Conspiracy theories on the internet are not data.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

The CDC would be a good source of answers.

If you believe the CDC, then why doesn't the article I posted concern you?

Evidence grows stronger for Covid vaccine link to heart issue, CDC says

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/evidence-grows-stronger-covid-vaccine-link-heart-issue-cdc-says-n1270339

Quote:

Hmmm. I'm not sure why they would require the vaccine if someone already had the illness.

On the other hand I can't see any harm in it either.

The epidemiologist interviewed on Tucker Carlson a couple days ago talked about this, and said that it's harmful. I can't remember his name, and Google makes Carlson's videos hard to find.

Quote:

The banning and silencing is unacceptable. Companies like Twitter and Facebook need to be broken up.

Agreed. These companies are evil.

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Vaccine denial: Why people don't want to take off their masks

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