The Derek Chauvin Trial

Extreme political narrative is one thing. Belonging to a group of people who are in fact, experiencing a spate of unecessary killings at the hands of police is another - that would lend itself to taking 'worst case scenario' views of events. When enough members of the same group give the same views, those views can self reinforce. And with enough of it occurring...it becomes no longer surprising when members of the group jump to a conclusion based on other events in recent history.

By the way, I'm not playing both sides - I'm saying I understand why/how, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

The key word here is extreme.

I agree with the basic premise. There is systemic racism that causes police to treat African Americans differently than they treat white people. There is a need for a national discussion about this in a serious way.

The extremism is the problem. The idea that every police shooting is racist doesn't make sense. The claims that police departments are inherently racist is ridiculous and harmful.

The fact is that strong police departments prevent crime. The fact is that most homicides in minority communities don't happen at the hands of police. The fact is that sometimes police need to use deadly force.

You can say "black lives matter"... You can support police reform and ask for accountability. You can also support due process for police officers and give police officers who are doing their job the support that they need.

The demonization of all police and the tacit acceptance of violence and the conspiracy theories we see on this thread are all examples of extremism. This isn't helpful for us as a society in resolving these difficult problems.

I think you and I maybe in agreement at least on some of this.

We're in agreement on most of it.

A while back I wrote about the need for better communication training in police departments. Many people (including police) no longer know how to be both firm/forthright and respectful at the same time, nor understand why regular disrespect is harmful to police, the public, and the relationship between the two. This travels in both directions, but the reality is the only 'one' that can get systematic training in this equation, is the police.

How you communicate over a long period of time affects how you think subconsciously (this should be obvious, but few people tie it to how regularly speaking with disrespect to a criminal affects police officers subconsciously...particularly if the majority of their dealings are with a particular group...and same for the abuse they cop - how they process it affects how they think on a subconscious level)

That's a long winded way of saying I think there would be systematic problems resulting from the lack of the above....and these systematic problems due to lack of communications training and mental health resilience training...would undoubtedly be felt the most by the group that police have most conflict with.

For the record, Max is in favor of Universal Health Care and wants socialized medicine in the US. Max doesn't understand how this is relevant on this thread... and he feels a little ridiculous referring to himself in the third person (although it felt right when he started typing this response).

Not everyone lives in ideological boxes.

I do not think that training is the center of the problem instead it is the current police culture that call for deadly force to be the first not the last Alternate when it come to black males at least.

Nonsense Snood,

This thread is an example of group think. Some of what is being said is beyond anything that can be called rational... but because it is coming from the same ideological bubble, people accept it.

I am intentionally questioning the ideological narrative, because no one else here is (except vikkor). This pisses Izzy off, which is why he is making weird comments on unrelated (but ideologically consistent) topics.

I agree with Izzy at least 80% of the time. It is the extremism that demands ideological purity that is the problem.

But that whole culture is trained in. The idea that every traffic stop is extremely dangerous, that using extreme violence during arrests is the safest course for officers, that things like choke holds and knee to the neck are good procedures, this is stuff that is taught in some police departments. Heck, Chauvin was a police trainer! A standardized training program would be a way to counter the type of misinformation that colors police actions.

I agree with national police training. It seems to be the practical way to change "police culture".

The left-wing ideology is overly simplistic on this topic, they want to "change the culture" and "stop police warrior attitudes". They are ignoring reality and pretending that there are no difficult choices to make.

1. Increased police activity in a community leads to less crime. This has been shown repeatedly in reasearch and is a fact.

2. The vast majority of homicides in minority communities have nothing to do with the police. If we are talking about reducing homicide, police killings is only a very small part of that.

3. Police officers often have to make quick life or death situations. Police are often confronted with dangerous situations where lives are threated by criminals. Pretending that police don't have to prepare for this is completely out of touch with reality.

Yes, we need to address criminal behavior by police (which I believe is far more rare than the left-wing pretends). Yes, we need to address systemic racism (which is a real problem that is common).

But we also have to take a balanced view that takes reality into account.

A Question for Snood and Edgar... if restricting the police use of deadly force leads to more crime and more loss of human life, do you still insist on it?

No. No one is talking about killing people for minor offenses.

Hey Skippy, don't you have Murder She Wrote reruns to be watching?

Nope. I was just reminding you to watch your "stories" there Skippy. Also, I think "the wheel" is going to be on later.