"Jesus would work as a healer today" would he though?

Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2021 07:56 am
Have either of youse actually read what I just said?
Or are you going to be filtering it based on your own assumptions?

God doesn't hate people. Not gay people. Not trans people (I'm trans, that'd mean he would hate me), not Jews, no Catholics, not blacks, not even those evil whites that you probably suspect God thinks are privileged (who has a problem with recreating God here?), not immigrants themselves.

God has helped each of these people find belonging and other good things.

What God, or Jesus, might have a problem with this mentality. "We know we are right. What we do is not a sin." Illegal immigration is not wrong, you say. Jesus would be doing it, you say.

No. Jesus helped sinners. He was not a sinner himself.

"If you say you have no sin, you deceive yourself..." ( Or is it we/ourselves?)

"And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."

Jesus would nor be walking across a hot desert in order to enter a country where he was not invited. This is trespass. This is sin.

You immediately filter my not agreeing with you as "judging these people" because you are under a delusion.

But, and this key. Jesus would be at the border mission, being the first to forgive their sins, to dress their wounds, to heal the heatstroke and other conditions they would get from trying to sneak on foot to America for a (possibly false, since each immigrant diminishes the benefit of coming here) ideal of a better life. He would not have any opinion either way on politics. He'd help them.

In order, that Jesus does his job, we must understand sin as sin. If we do not, then the entire analogy breaks down and we are blaspheming against the holy spirit. We see Jesus as some sort of Marxist hero or something, rebelling against the man.
Again, who is here, creating their own Jesus? And when Jesus fails to live up to that notion, because he never claimed to be leftist or rightist or anything like that (or indeed amything but Jesus), I'm sure you'd be calling for his crucifixion.
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2021 03:23 am
It looks as if you've put a lot of thought into developing your understanding of Jesus. But I don't see why it should be necessary to put so much effort into carving out a place for this religious figure in your life when you're obviously clever enough to figure out how things work without the assistance of the judeo-christian tradition, to the point of actually using the concept of "sin" in the context of situations which are economic in origin. Why do you need Jesus? Why not just live that way yourself? It's not "what would Jesus do?" — it's rather, right here and now, what are you doing?
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Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2021 08:48 am
Jesus also set boundaries.

It makes me understand suddenly, that you are the exact sort of people who would demand he be crucified again.

You set up expectations like "Jesus sacrificed himself, so he must want to be sacrificed. And his followers need to do too."

In John 11:49-52 the priests are talking about how it's better for one man to die than a nation to fall. In other words, Jesus was made a scapegoat for such people, dying for their sake as well as for the sins of others. Yet when he was raised, he did not appear to the Pharisres, nor the scribes, nor Pilate. Why not? Because these men were not his friends. These men demanded he sacrifice everything.

Jesus taught, "Love your neighbour as yourself." If you hate yourself, if you throw away your own happiness and safety, you do not love yourself. How then can you love your neighbour ? Likewise, I am only taking a stance against illegal immigration. Not against legal immigration. Not against immigrnts themselves, who suffer want at the border. You seem to have ignored them to push for exploitation and sex trade. When immigrants are illegal, they have no bargaining power. They are paid under the table, well below what they should be paid. And the higher the minimum wage, the more illegal immigrants are used, and the harder residents are pushed. A single mother of three is desperate for money to feed her kids. I care about her plight. Illegal immigrants means food taken off her table, as not only does her insulting $2/he waitress job not pay the bills without her busting her butt on tips (only to encounter people like me who can't afford to pay 15 or 20% extra after you've already added a 15% tax, or chweap assholes who watch her wear something low-cut), but gets taxed on her tips unless she fudges the numbers. The higher the tax for her, the more she has to cheat. I care about the business owner who has to lay off all his employees because some idiot in Washington decided $15/hr is great. Stores sell inflated prices (nothing changes), and he now has less woekers or has to do it all himself. I care about the illegals told a lie about opportunities, and then pushed to do jobs for well below this $15/hr because they cannot dispute pay or get fired. And if they get fired, they get dragged back to Mexico or wherever they came from. I care about people who are at the economic threshold before poverty, who after taxes spent on immigrants sink below it. I care about these things, because I was a part-time worker who nonetheless saw how paying for free Medicare for immigrants while legal residents have to pay the taxes means that someone like me couldn't afford to fix their car. These immigrants don't live any better in America. They are exploited. And meanwhile, everyone pays more bills and taxes for them. If I have love for myself, then I cannot do this. And knowing what I do about under-the-table work, I don't kid myself that this is good for them either.

Jesus said, "The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me." Why not? Because people would throw him under the bus, demanding he die on behalf of the people.

Jesus appeared to his friends. He called them not to sacrifice everything but to spread the Gospel. Doing that meant they had to sacrifice everything anyway, because the world was filled at the time with unreasonable people like you. But their deaths eventually led to a world where Christians could hold jobs, worship freely, and Christians were not constantly called to be martyrs. Jesus came to his friends. Because his friends didn't demand he be exploited and sacrificed. They wanted to be his friend.

Christianity is not about sacrifice. It's about loving others to such an extent that you are willing to sacrifice everything for them. And it is about loving yourself. However Jesus would come back, I'm pretty sure if people walked around like entitled pricks demanding he give everything to them, he'd go right ahead with letting the world go to Apocalypse. Compassion means to suffer with. So if you care for these illegals, rather than baiting me to give all I have for them, you ought to join a mission that helps them.

In the Good Samaritan story, you told me in another post how Lebanese is close to Samaritan. You care about identity, where someone comes from. But the good Samaritan story is about how is the neighbour. Is it the thieves? (And many illegal immigrants behave as thieves, taking free stuff from America, not paying taxes, and expecting the legal Americans to foot the bill) Is it the Pharisees? (There are whitewashed tombs that demand people give alms to the temple) Is it the priests or Levites? (Those who think about proper conduct, to such an extent where they don't understand mercy or only extend it to obvious targets) Or is it those who have mercy? We all have to live together in this nation. Making it into a hole where everyone is poor doesn't sarisfy mercy, it satisfies ego. We can help more people when our own country is affluent. This is loving yourself, and it loves others.
In the 1950s, immigration was fairly under control. People got wealthy, and they took vacations to places like Acapulco. Those places became wealthy. Then socialist revolts happened in most of South America. Economy went south, and most of these places (Haiti is a good example, every hurricane involves us throwing money at that) became our dependents. Go visit southern Virginia and you'll see how things turned out for the average American. They can't afford charity, so more and more desperate people increase. These people don't help things by coming here. Rather they make those places slums too.
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Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2021 08:50 am
Have you read the Bible? You don't seem to understand that Jesus was trying to set people free, not saddle them with the sin of "virtue."
The Anointed
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2021 05:12 am
Bulmabriefs144 wrote ..... Have you read the Bible? You don't seem to understand that Jesus was trying to set people free, not saddle them with the sin of "virtue."

The Anointed Resonds ..... What! Are you talking about that woman that you believe walked the earth disguised as a man?

And you have the audacity to ask some other person if they have ever read the bible?
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2021 03:14 am
@The Anointed,
You keep making this statement.

Yes, I do. So what?

I have read the Bible enough that I've noticed most of Jesus's teachings seem more like what a woman would say than a man. Where are all the calls for men to be married? Where are all the calls to battle?

Jesus instead shuns marriage, and is neither involved with the Roman army nor in the Jewish resistance fighters. We see a very peaceful person who heals everyone, friends, foe, and stranger. We see someone who asks him followers to travel to uncertain lands, to sacrifice their own peace, to take risks. The virtues of Jesus are all feminine virtues.

Yes, I have read the Bible. The thing is, the only change that turning all Jesus pronouns to she and her would make is that it'd offend some people who insist on traditions. Jesus's sense of gender is so weak as to be replaceable.
In fact, reading the Gospel, every scene actually makes more sense with Jesus as female. Why Jesus had male and female followers but didn't seem to be sexually active. Why alot of Jesus's followers seemed borderline gay. Why there was a mocking tone to the reference to Jesus as King of the Jews. Contextally, it actually makes more sense that a Jewish society was at odds with her than him.

Do I know the Bible? Yes I do. But when I think of males, I think of several roommates that I've had, who were sorta dudebro fratboy types. That's really the most gentle an image of males that I can get. My dad is kind, but has a temper and is stubborn and willful. When I think of Jesus, I think of someone soft, gentle, forgiving, trusting, and sweet.
This isn't a lack of knowledge thing. This is me literally not equating manhood with any of Jesus's teachings or personality traits.
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