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Debt of the United States

 
 
gollum
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 04:16 pm
Many people, economists, and others are concerned about the amount of U.S. Government debt (e.g., Treasury Bills).

If the U.S. Government wishes to have a certain function funded, could it as an alternative to borrowing, ask the Board Governors of the Federal Reserve System to issue the debt and fund the program?
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Type: Question • Score: 3 • Views: 239 • Replies: 19

 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 04:20 pm
@gollum,
Issuing debt and borrowing are the same thing.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 04:28 pm
Engineer is correct.

However, an alternative is available: the government could have the treasury print more money, which the government could then spend.
0 Replies
 
gollum
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 04:30 pm
@engineer,
engineer-

Yes, it is. If the U.S. Government borrows through issuing Treasury Bills, it is U.S. Government debt.

If the Federal Reserve Bank of New York borrows, it is Federal Reserve debt.

(By the way, FRBNY is privately owned.)
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 04:34 pm
@gollum,
Why would it matter who issued the debt?

Magic Money Tree economists say that the federal government should issue no debt and should instead simply print whatever money it needs to spend.
engineer
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 04:41 pm
@gollum,
gollum wrote:

(By the way, FRBNY is privately owned.)

Who owns it?
gollum
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 05:00 pm
@engineer,
engineer-

Each of the National Banks based in an area called the 2nd Federal Reserve District plus those of the State Banks based in the same district.
engineer
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 05:12 pm
@gollum,
But if the federal reserve is privately owned, who is the owner? Honest question.
gollum
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 05:40 pm
@engineer,
engineer-

Each of the Member's banks based in the 2nd Federal Reserve District own a percentage of it. The total of those percentages is 100%.

Each of the nationally chartered banks based in the 2nd Federal Reserve District is required to purchase stock in it. Each of the State banks based in the 2nd Federal Reserve District are permitted to buy stock in it.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 06:02 pm
@gollum,
In other words, it owns itself?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 07:17 pm
@gollum,
But if it is really "privately owned", there must be an owner, right? If it is "owned" by the other banks which are in turn owned by the public, then it isn't privately owned, right?
longly1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 08:03 pm
@oralloy,
"Magic Money Tree economists say that the federal government should issue no debt and should instead simply print whatever money it needs to spend."

Well, the treasury could print a special-currency as legal tender only for foreign debt, especially for China. That way, we could pay off a large portion of the debt. I wonder how long it would to pay off the Chinese; not long if we printed million dollar bills.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 08:22 pm
@longly1,
Why a special currency only for foreign debt? Printing regular currency works just fine.

We could print enough money overnight to pay off all the debt in one fell swoop. Although realistically we could not force bondholders to give up their bonds before they came due.
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 08:38 pm
@oralloy,
Based on your above logic , see if you could predict within say 100% , what would a loaf of bread sell for within a week of initiating your " warp speed money printing".

oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 08:50 pm
@farmerman,
According to Magic Money Tree economists, the price would remain the same. They think that we are in a deflationary economy and don't realize it, and there is lots of room for increased spending with no inflation.

There are also mechanisms to counter inflation if government spending does start to cause inflation. For example the Fed could raise interest rates and curb private borrowing.

Magic Money Tree economists would rather see the federal funds rate permanently set at zero and instead use varying tax rates to curb inflation. But the end result will still be a curb on inflation.
gollum
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 08:56 pm
@engineer,
engineer-

It is owned by privately owned commercial banks (e.g., Citibank, N.A.) Each of these stockholders of FRBNY owns a small percentage of it but in total they own 100%.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Oct, 2020 04:34 am
@oralloy,
You really do believe your written garbage dont you?.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Oct, 2020 07:25 am
@farmerman,
I'm not sold on Magic Money Tree economics. I just find it an interesting position.

It's your leftist buddies like Sanders and AOC who are hardcore believers in MMT economics.
gollum
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Oct, 2020 06:11 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy-

What is Magic Money Tree economics and/or where can I read about it?
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Oct, 2020 06:17 pm
@gollum,
MMT really stands for Modern Monetary Theory. They earned the nickname Magic Money Tree because of their belief in printing very large amounts of money.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory
0 Replies
 
 

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