U.S. Says Russian Hackers Are Trying To Steal Coronavirus Vaccine Research

@edgarblythe,

Yes, it is our tax money footing the bills........What I've been hearing is not so much that the Chinese and Russians are pilfering medical research from Canada, the UK and the US.....it';s also that they are disrupting the research in an attempt to foul up the results. This really should be a global effort to defeat this virus...I suspect that our allies don't really trust us right now and the Russians and Chinese are happily exploiting Trumps ego trips and disinterest in the welfare of the American population.

Don't forget to vote in November. I'm wearing a mask so I can still be alive to vote.

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@oralloy,

You are talking about some quixotic proposals put forward by Ilhan Omar and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Biden is not them; he only supports some parts of such progressive policy proposals.

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Anyone thinking the research should be kept secret...rather than shared...is backing the wrong horse.

We are getting what we are begging for...and getting it in abundance.

Some people think it is GOD getting retribution. I suspect it is nature paying what is due.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

It shows what progressives would do everywhere if they were given the opportunity.

Several Western European and Nordic states have progressive policies, a progressive electorate, and progressive governments. None of them remotely resemble the dictatorial state of Venezuela. It's funny how the only examples of governments conservatives can come up with to show how bad they think "progressives" are aren't even progressive states at all. What progressive policies of France, The Netherlands, or Germany would you change? Why?

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@glitterbag,

There are a small number of highly educated people with the ability and specialized knowledge to create a vaccine that will end this pandemic.

How much should they be paid?

Their market value is at least $500,000, and companies will gladly pay them this because that is what they are worth. If they aren't working on creating the vaccine we need... they will have no problem getting paid for doing something else.

How much do you think we should pay them?

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@Frank Apisa,

I kind of agree on principal. But it fucks up the economics.

Drug discovery is based on risk and reward. People are willing to pay for these projects because there is a chance that they will pay out big if your team finds the vaccine that works.

If have worked on R&D projects where I was paid less than I could make elsewhere in exchange for stock options. Stock options are often worthless, but when they pay off they pay off big.

Any skilled person is going to need to be paid, either in money now, or the possibility of a big payout later.

If someone else steals your work, you won't get the payout you deserve. If that is what is going to happen to the people who discover a vaccine... then the smart people are going to use their talents to do something that pays.

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Venezuela was actually on a good track, were it not for US sabotage to turn it the way it now is.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I kind of agree on principal. But it fucks up the economics.

Drug discovery is based on risk and reward. People are willing to pay for these projects because there is a chance that they will pay out big if your team finds the vaccine that works.

If have worked on R&D projects where I was paid less than I could make elsewhere in exchange for stock options. Stock options are often worthless, but when they pay off they pay off big.

Any skilled person is going to need to be paid, either in money now, or the possibility of a big payout later.

If someone else steals your work, yo
u won't get the payout you deserve. If that is what is going to happen to the people who discover a vaccine... then the smart people are going to use their talents to do something that pays.

I get what you are saying...but let's be sure that we understand what the ultimate reality is of "what you are saying."

You are saying that the economics (and fame) matters more than sharing...which will bring a pandemic to a close much sooner. More people will die and more will become horribly sick...but there are the economic and fame factors to consider.

Okay...that is that is true...and a valid position to take. I acknowledge that.

It definitely is not my position.

Someone "invented" the wheel.

I could make an argument for my position based on that statement...but it can stand alone and make sense or be cast aside as each person sees fit.

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@Frank Apisa,

Max's simple minded economics fails to point out why the market place fails in drug research.

If profit is the only motivation then only diseases that affect the rich will be addressed. Look at how many thousands of people die globally from Malaria. If Malaria affected rich people they would have found a cure years ago.

Antibiotics are another example. If you spend a fortune developing a new antibiotic the medical establishment will try to use it as sparingly as possible, and keep it in reserve as a last resort. There's no money in that.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Max's simple minded economics fails to point out why the market place fails in drug research.

If profit is the only motivation then only diseases that affect the rich will be addressed. Look at how many thousands of people die globally from Malaria. If Malaria affected rich people they would have found a cure years ago.

Antibiotics are another example. If you spend a fortune developing a new antibiotic the medical establishment will try to use it as sparingly as possible, and keep it in reserve as a last resort. There's no money in that.

Good points, Izzy.

We humans have got to develop to a point where money and fame are not the sole motivators for excellence and contribution to humanity.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Venezuela was actually on a good track, were it not for US sabotage to turn it the way it now is.

Progressives always destroy the societies that they govern with their incompetent and delusional policies.

And then they always blame everyone but themselves for the devastation that they cause.

If they can get away with it (note Stalin) progressives will silence anyone who tells the truth about them.

Venezuela's plight was not caused in any way by US actions. It was caused entirely by progressivism and the mismanagement that progressives always inflict on the societies that they are in charge of.

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@edgarblythe,

Many thanks to Coldjoint for posting this earlier in a different thread. It's perfect.

https://patriot.imgix.net/739a9dbb0da7670dfc7e742c5573f77920ec7f44af7e08aeabfc6b19007eb4c9.jpg

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@izzythepush,

If our taxes fund research, there should be no profit beyond reasonable costs to implement what is produced. Unbridled profiteering is 3/4 of what's wrong with this nation in the first place.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

You are saying that the economics (and fame) matters more than sharing...which will bring a pandemic to a close much sooner. More people will die and more will become horribly sick...but there are the economic and fame factors to consider.

You have that exactly better.

Economics and fame is exactly what will bring this pandemic to a close much sooner. Without economics and fame, the people with the ability to create a vaccine are going to be busy doing something that will actually pay them what they are worth.

If you think that a vaccine can be found simply by good natured people willing only to work out of the goodness of their hearts... go find a vaccine.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

If our taxes fund research, there should be no profit beyond reasonable costs to implement what is produced. Unbridled profiteering is 3/4 of what's wrong with this nation in the first place.

I agree with this kind of.... but I think Edgar is being unrealistic.

Our taxes don't fund research. The public funding for science research, including research on a vaccine, is no where near what it takes.

Someone has to pay the real costs of research. A talented scientist is worth at least $500,000 a year. A talented research assistant is worth at least $90,000 a year. Plus you need to pay lab techs ($50,000) and cleaning staff and lab fees and computer specialists.

Tax-payers aren't willing to pay the true cost. This means that funding needs to come from corporations who want profits.

There are two ways to pay for research...

1) Tax payers paying the true costs (including $500,000 scientists, support staff, and real laboratories).

2) Corporate investment with the expectation of big profits for a successful project.

Pick one... or we won't get a vaccine.

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@maxdancona,

Condescending, fascistic and wrong.

There is no rule that says those making medicines have to be paid astronomical amounts.

It’s quite possible for companies to recoup their costs and make a reasonable return without extortionate pricing.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Max's simple minded economics fails to point out why the market place fails in drug research.

If profit is the only motivation then only diseases that affect the rich will be addressed. Look at how many thousands of people die globally from Malaria. If Malaria affected rich people they would have found a cure years ago.

Antibiotics are another example. If you spend a fortune developing a new antibiotic the medical establishment will try to use it as sparingly as possible, and keep it in reserve as a last resort. There's no money in that.

Economics have worked incredibly well. Yes, I concede the point that there are disparities between rich and poor. However economics driven medical research has had incredible benefits for all parts of humanity. Our medical research has always been driven by promises of fortune and fame, and look at the results.

- We have literally doubled the life expectancy of humans. 500 years ago the life expectancy for humans was about 40 years, now it is in 70s in developed countries and in the 60s in the developing world.

- Child mortality was about 10-15% at least even among the rich. Now it is under 1% globally.

- We now have cheap immunizations, treatments for parasites, readily available and cheap eyewear that are bettering the lives of people in the poorest countries.

I will not argue that there aren't disparities and injustice. That's not my point.

The point is that we have a medical research system that is based on rewarding scientists and researchers for their discoveries.... and this system has been incredibly effective at advancing medical research and bettering humanity.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

You have that exactly better.

I think you were posting in a hurry. I do that too.

....exactly backwards???

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

There is no rule that says those making medicines have to be paid astronomical amounts.

I assume you have gotten a job. You worked hard to get an education and experience.

Your employer looks at your worth to them, and makes you an offer of employment that includes salary. You are working in large part for because of the economic incentive.

If one employer is offering you $40,000... and another employer is offering you $120,000.. would you really accept the lower salary?

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@maxdancona,

What a load of vague nonsense.

America isn’t the only country involved in medical research.

Stop trying to claim credit for other’s work.

Malaria still kills thousands globally.

Just because most of the people dying are black doesn’t mean they’re not important.

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U.S. Says Russian Hackers Are Trying To Steal Coronavirus Vaccine Research

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