Massachusetts makes it to second base!

@maxdancona,

Quote:

I gave in on the argument. Now you are just piling on. (That being.saidmthere are a lot of things surgeons do that I don't.
but why should we argue when I have already conceded the point)

it wasn't aimed at you... its for anyone else reading who is still unconvinced that masks are necessary...

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@maxdancona,

According to all the stats we have had to date - kids are not going to get sick.

Teachers - yes - if they do not take precautions. We need to have teachers set up so they are safe. The stats have shown in the several countries and in daycares here in the US that the kids are not getting sick. The kids are not infecting the teachers. Any teachers that have gotten sick have infected each other.

But yet we have places like home depot open. The workers are all adults and yet we can keep them safe and people are willing to risk the chance of covid by working there and shopping there. Is it more important that people go shopping at home depot, than we educate and care for the mental well being of our children?

Sounds like our priorities are screwed up.

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@Linkat,

And per webmd in whether kids should go back to school for those worrying about their children:

" kids need to go to school to learn well, to have structure, and to have socialization. We want them to be holistically healthy – physically and mentally. School done the right way can help us accomplish those goals."

https://blogs.webmd.com/webmd-doctors/20200708/should-kids-go-back-to-school-why-the-aap-says-yes

In any case - I do think the parents should have the option to have their child do virtual learning - so if they feel unsafe either they are concerned about their own health or their child's or any reason - it would be easy to have virtual learning at the same time they are doing in classroom teaching.

My daughter is doing this with her performance training. They have both - due to the limited number of kids that can go in person, they are limiting the class to 8 where they have a marked off area - only they are in during the class, and they have the virtual training going on where the others are following along at home.

It is better for the in person because it is easier for the coaches to see how the kids are doing and making sure they are doing everything correctly limiting the chances of getting hurt.

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@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

But yet we have places like home depot open. The workers are all adults and yet we can keep them safe and people are willing to risk the chance of covid by working there and shopping there. Is it more important that people go shopping at home depot, than we educate and care for the mental well being of our children?

Sounds like our priorities are screwed up.

Home Depot is not a school.

When I go to Home Depot, I wear a mask. I go in for 10 minutes or so. I get what I need avoid people. If Home Depot is crowded or if I am uncomfortable, I have the option to leave.

Everyone in school is trapped. They can't leave if they are uncomfortable. They are there for 6 or 7 hours no matter what.

I think schools are a special problem.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Linkat wrote:

But yet we have places like home depot open. The workers are all adults and yet we can keep them safe and people are willing to risk the chance of covid by working there and shopping there. Is it more important that people go shopping at home depot, than we educate and care for the mental well being of our children?

Sounds like our priorities are screwed up.

Home Depot is not a school.

When I go to Home Depot, I wear a mask. I go in for 10 minutes or so. I get what I need avoid people. If Home Depot is crowded or if I am uncomfortable, I have the option to leave.

Everyone in school is trapped. They can't leave if they are uncomfortable. They are there for 6 or 7 hours no matter what.

I think schools are a special problem.

A school is not Home Depot.

When workers are working at home depot, they wear a mask. They do so for the 4 - 8 hour shift they work. The cannot avoid people if Home Depot is crowded (which by the way - state government rules is they cannot be crowded) , the workers do not have the option to leave.

Employees at Home Depot range in age from 18 to over 70. The older they are the higher risk they are of catching and being seriously ill with possible death of covid.

When kids are in school they wear a mask unless they are very young - which these same young children are exempt from masks in any circumstance. Per state guidelines the kids are not supposed to wear a mask for the 6-7 - they are to take breaks where they are spread out and take off their masks. The schools are not crowded because they need to spread the kids out per state guidelines. If kids feel uncomfortable, the school is in a position to call their parents for them to get picked up.

Children in school range in age from about 5 - 18. The younger they are the least susceptible they are of catching and being ill with (at least to date) zero chance of death.

For workers at Home Depot they are trapped. They can't leave if they are uncomfortable or else they will lose their job. They are there for 4 or 8 hours no matter what.

In schools, they are given mask breaks. They can leave or study from home if they are uncomfortable. They do not need to stay at school all day if their parents come pick them up earlier or drop them off late.

I think Home Depots are a special problem.

1 Reply

@Linkat,

I think you are arguing just to argue.... but I will continue to play along

- I am pretty sure that the average age of school employees is significantly higher than that of Home Depot employees.

- I am certain that contact that Home Depot employees have with individual customers is less than being trapped with 25 students at a time for 50 minutes a class for a day of 5 classes.

- The real problem is a basic human psychology leading to a flawed logic.

"Schools (or protests) are worthy causes ... so they can't be bad. The virus is bad. Therefore the virus won't impact worthy things like schools and protests."

I have no problem closing "Home Depot" if that is what public health officials feel is best. I suspect that we are about to see indoor dining at restaurants closed again. I will not complain when that happens.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I think you are arguing just to argue.... but I will continue to play along

- I am pretty sure that the average age of school employees is significantly higher than that of Home Depot employees.

- I am certain that contact that Home Depot employees have with individual customers is less than being trapped with 25 students at a time for 50 minutes a class for a day of 5 classes.

- I believe the real problem is a basic human psychology leading to a flawed logic.

"Schools (or protests) are worthy causes ... so they can't be bad. The virus is bad. Therefore the virus won't impact worthy things like schools and protests."

Actually I wasn't arguing for the sake of it - I was pointing out the falseness of your statement.

I agree with the statement of the teachers - they are the ones in the most danger when it comes to schools - why I suggested that they and all of us make sure they take extra precautions. Same as anyone that would be exposed to others while they need to go to work similar to those say working at Home Depot.

I am also of the opinion that if someone is older or has an underlying health issue - they should not be working if it brings them out in the public - those people should be the ones getting extra unemployment. But you would need to prove you fit a risk category.

I have seem employees at Home Depot - they hire from college kids to semi-retired. Not too much different in ages of teachers. Teachers a bit older meaning they are out of college but as young as 24 and into their 70s. Not much different. At least at the ones in my community and of course home depot is an example of the average joe out working in the community under these circumstances.

And no - I am basing the lack of children getting covid because of actual statistics. Many of which are from AAP - a respected health organization in place to do the best for the health of children.

What are you basing this on "- I believe the real problem is a basic human psychology leading to a flawed logic. --"Schools (or protests) are worthy causes ... so they can't be bad. The virus is bad. Therefore the virus won't impact worthy things like schools and protests"

I never once thought or stated that - because one thing is good the virus would avoid you; never said that or alluded to it or even basing school openings on it - I am basing it on statistics and simple common sense - I stated it is better for kids to be in school for their HEALTH - not because school is good. AAP believes it is best for their overall HEALTH due to the statistics that show children are significantly less likely to contract this virus.

Here is a thought - more kids get the regular flu and die from it - should we close the schools when flu season occurs? And even those that get a flu vaccination can still get the flu. I understand that to the overall society, covid is more dangerous, but to children the flu is. And where are children together most in close quarters - schools or daycares- but yet we do not close them during even a particular deadly flu season.

We do not do that - so why would we close for something that is less dangerous to children?

Logically you protect those that need protecting. The elderly and those with underlying health issues.

1 Reply

@Linkat,

I suppose we disagree then.

- There isn't much difference between kids in high school and "adults" whatever that means. There may be a fortunate rule that kids won't be touched... but I don't believe in magic.

- I don't think that locking kids up, 25 at a time, in a closed space... in between which they rush through crowded hallways is comparable to any business. It may be comparable to a cinema or sports event.

- You don't have to compare apples and oranges. Restaurants are different than grocery stores. Sporting events are different than funeral homes. Schools are different then Home Depots.

- There are public health experts (including one I know personally) who are declaring the particular dangers of opening schools. Many of them are saying that we shouldn't open schools until very specific metrics are met. My personal public health expert is saying that privately they all know that schools can't open in September... and are just couching their message.

We will see if my prediction, that schools will not open in any meaningful way in September, comes true. I will listen to the public health experts.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I agree I am listening to health experts of which the AAP is such.

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@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

I agree I am listening to health experts of which the AAP is such.

I agree.

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https://i.postimg.cc/fR3bmHSr/homedepotcovid.jpg

From my social media feed... it seems topical.

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from today's Globe...

wear your mask in public, folks... don't be a #Maskhole

.

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this just in --

Gov. Baker announces Massachusetts is "indefinitely postponing" the second step of
Phase 3 of the state's reopening due to an uptick in COVID-19 cases...

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BU says it will suspend students who attend or host large parties

Boston University announced Wednesday that it plans to suspend any student who fails to
“take COVID-19 seriously” by attending or hosting a large party amid the ongoing pandemic.

“There will be a few students who won’t take COVID-19 seriously and their stay in our community
will be short-lived,” Kenneth Elmore, Associate Provost and Dean of Students, said in an email
to students. “If you host or attend a large off-campus or on-campus gathering, social or party,
you will be suspended from Boston University.”

Elmore warned that any student who risks exposing themselves and others to the coronavirus
will face disciplinary action...

1 Reply

@Region Philbis,

Suspension through the fall semester and no online either. Sounds reasonable. Not refunding the tuition or room and board, at least a percentage, strikes this person as excessive.

I'm also wondering why the cutoff count is above 25. Is a group of 23 or 24 somehow that much safer?

And what about 25 sipping wine, masked and several feet apart while discussing books or something else and not touching each other at all? as opposed to 20 drunken snuggling persons?

Meanwhile, dart playing is not being allowed in NYC.

1 Reply

@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

Suspension through the fall semester and no online either. Sounds reasonable. Not refunding the tuition or room and board, at least a percentage, strikes this person as excessive.

I'm also wondering why the cutoff count is above 25. Is a group of 23 or 24 somehow that much safer?

And what about 25 sipping wine, masked and several feet apart while discussing books or something else and not touching each other at all? as opposed to 20 drunken snuggling persons?

Meanwhile, dart playing is not being allowed in NYC.

Seriously Sturgizzy,

How would you make the rules? Obviously there needs to be rules... and they should be enforced if colleges are serious about preventing the spread of the virus on their campuses.

I don't see any other way to do it then to create rules such as limiting the size of gatherings.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

So, what you are trying to say is: If my daughter arrives at a gathering on campus and there are 23 persons there, and moments later 3 persons make their way in, bringing the total to 27 (your daughter is #24), and before my child can get to the exit and leave, the police (campus or regular taxpayer funded) arrive, I'll be quite okay with losing the money I've invested in her education and housing.... Does that about sum it up?

(and I am aware that your daughter is not yet in college, this was meant as an example and might well be applied in the future ((pandemic or not)))

1 Reply

@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

So, what you are trying to say is: If my daughter arrives at a gathering on campus and there are 23 persons there, and moments later 3 persons make their way in, bringing the total to 27 (your daughter is #24), and before my child can get to the exit and leave, the police (campus or regular taxpayer funded) arrive, I'll be quite okay with losing the money I've invested in her education and housing.... Does that about sum it up?

(and I am aware that your daughter is not yet in college, this was meant as an example and might well be applied in the future ((pandemic or not)))

Yes.

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Massachusetts makes it to second base!

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